Trans Women are not Women

[Crawtator]

Ah, so the reasoned debate wasn't working for you and you decided insults are the way to go?



Funny that the medical profession struggled with any of this. Its a pity they didn't have your expertise to help them.



His baby is dead indeed. You glad?

It's not funny that the medical profession struggled with this situation. Its ******* tragic. And it's also insulting that you insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.

The whole point is that, in certain situations (and in my opinion, especially dealing with the medical profession where life or death may hinge on decisions such as biological sex), correctly identifying yourself by your birth-biological sex is vitally important and should be required. Damned your feelings when so much is at stake: not only your life, but the possibility of protracted lawsuits, misdiagnosis, and simple insurance settlements. There is firm, scientific reasoning for requiring medical documents to show biological sex. Hell, I'd be ok if the forms had some sort of blank after the two checkboxes for sex that would allow for further explanation. But let's not pretend that the sex of the individual is unimportant, as the example shows.

 

[Meadmaker]

not only your life, but the possibility of protracted lawsuits, misdiagnosis, and simple insurance settlements.

and , let's not forget, someone else's life.

 

[8enotto]

In any medical situation you must answer honestly to help them help you.

Do you have any allergies to any meds?

I got lucky and do not. They always ask and I appreciate it. My 'stache probably gives away my gender and other small details confirm it for them. I bet they appreciate that after this gal's mess.

She should have mentioned something if none of the folks on staff noted (s)he looked a bit off kilter for a typical male. Never assume anything when a life is on the line. Even if it might offend her feelings.

This is an extreme case and my hope is it stays a rare one. Like never again.

 

[xjx388]

It’s a weird world when good medical practice becomes: when a patient presents to the ER for abdominal pain, run a pregnancy test even if the patient has all outward appearances of being male. In an office setting, the insurance company wouldn’t pay for it because the gender would be set to make on the claim. No big deal because it’s pretty cheap...

Now consider the case of a biologically female patient who identifies as male who presents for an annual exam...I cannot put male on their demographic form, obviously, but this might hurt their feelings. I would imagine that transmen still have the same genetic predispositions to certain diseases as females, especially if they haven’t fully transitioned. So propensity to Osteoporosis, breast/cervical/ovarian cancer...

I’m just imagining a scenario where a patient really wants to pass as a man, is offended by being called a woman and therefore doesn’t get the necessary tests done. I would hope that such a patient would be forthcoming about his true situation so proper medical care can be provided but seeing so much rhetoric, it’s hard to be certain.

 

[p0lka]

It's not funny that the medical profession struggled with this situation. Its ******* tragic. And it's also insulting that you insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
The whole point is that, in certain situations (and in my opinion, especially dealing with the medical profession where life or death may hinge on decisions such as biological sex), correctly identifying yourself by your birth-biological sex is vitally important and should be required. Damned your feelings when so much is at stake: not only your life, but the possibility of protracted lawsuits, misdiagnosis, and simple insurance settlements. There is firm, scientific reasoning for requiring medical documents to show biological sex. Hell, I'd be ok if the forms had some sort of blank after the two checkboxes for sex that would allow for further explanation. But let's not pretend that the sex of the individual is unimportant, as the example shows.

re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

Stop being so insulted about imaginary things that your emotions told you to be insulted about, when the reality is that it never happened in the first place.
**** I get annoyed about this pretend insulting/offence stuff.
This is a prime example of that.

re: the stuff i didn't highlight, I have no opinion on that.

 

[The Atheist]

In these edge cases I'm honestly failing to see what information is being conveyed by 'man' or 'woman'.

Well, if you'd ever heard of "edging" you might wish you'd phrased that differently.

Bras?

Ask a soccer player - it looks like all the professional players wear one.

Maybe they're at the forefront of blurring gender?

 

[Crawtator]

re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

Stop being so insulted about imaginary things that your emotions told you to be insulted about, when the reality is that it never happened in the first place.
**** I get annoyed about this pretend insulting/offence stuff.
This is a prime example of that.

re: the stuff i didn't highlight, I have no opinion on that.

I can't really take this seriously. Stating "His baby is dead indeed. You glad?" is not only off topic, but is so outside the scope of what was being discussed that it implies something despicable. And I would bet my bottom dollar that most of the posters here would agree with my assessment. If not, I would gladly retract.

 

[xjx388]

re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

Stop being so insulted about imaginary things that your emotions told you to be insulted about, when the reality is that it never happened in the first place.
**** I get annoyed about this pretend insulting/offence stuff.
This is a prime example of that.

re: the stuff i didn't highlight, I have no opinion on that.

The “you glad?” part is the one that indicates, to me anyway, that there was some sinister insinuation (next band name?). An insult disguised as JAQ.

 

[p0lka]

I can't really take this seriously. Stating "His baby is dead indeed. You glad?" is not only off topic, but is so outside the scope of what was being discussed that it implies something despicable. And I would bet my bottom dollar that most of the posters here would agree with my assessment. If not, I would gladly retract.

This is the actual thing that happened,

I decided to give up some of the pseudointellectual crap.

Ah, so the reasoned debate wasn't working for you and you decided insults are the way to go?

That person in the article is a woman.

Funny that the medical profession struggled with any of this. Its a pity they didn't have your expertise to help them.

Her baby is dead.

His baby is dead indeed. You glad?

Let us not lose ourselves in imaginary insulting things that never happened, lets's stick to the facts.

replying to something that someone else brought up can't be offtopic, unless that someone else bringing it up was being offtopic in the first place.

 

[Joe Random]

Well, if you'd ever heard of "edging" you might wish you'd phrased that differently.

<...>

When I was young we used to call that 'tantra'. Today I tend to call it 'three shots of a single malt before "happy adult alone time"'.

Six of one, 45 minutes of another ...

 

[Ziggurat]

And, it seems appropriate to use the old Scots proverb here.... "if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle".

That's transphobic.

 

[quadraginta]

The funny thing is that many activist "trans women" are anything but 'girly'

<snip>

When you say "many", are you suggesting than some significant percentage of 'activist "trans women"' are bullies?

Would you like to clarify how large a percentage you believe that to be?

Evidence by anecdote isn't really helpful. I'm pretty sure that for every example of a transwoman you can find who is acting like a bully I can find several where they are not.

And without too much difficulty find anti-trans "activists" who are.

 

[Roboramma]

This is the actual thing that happened,
















Let us not lose ourselves in imaginary insulting things that never happened, lets's stick to the facts.

replying to something that someone else brought up can't be offtopic, unless that someone else bringing it up was being offtopic in the first place.

It seems very clear from Meadmaker's post that he does indeed think the death of that baby is tragic. I'm not clear why you think Archie asked "You glad?" if not to insinuate that Meadmaker was, but maybe you think he was just generally uncertain and was asking out of concern for the answer?

Meadmaker is very clearly not glad that the baby died. No sane person is. That should be assumed by anyone.

He furthermore seems upset that trans ideology contributed to baby's death, in so much as if the mother had simply said "I'm a woman" then the death would have been avoided. Anyone who is more concerned with the baby's life than the feelings of the mother should be able to see this.

It's possible that the death could have been avoided in other ways. If the hospital had some option for "transman" instead of just male or female, and if it's staff were familiar enough with the term, perhaps that could work, but it does increase the complexity of the situation and that inevitably leads to mistakes with people who are overworked, sleep deprived, etc. If we can't even get doctors to wash their hands, anything that makes their job simpler seems like a good idea, including putting biological sex on forms rather than gender.

 

[Stout]

Meghan Murphy coming to Scotland.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/polit...urphy-won-t-be-silenced-in-scotland-1-4930060

Seems she's a little irked about being silenced by "the left".

Laws were being passed and nobody was being consulted about it and there was no argument in the media. You just had to accept it or, as I found out when I started asking questions, you were a right-wing bigot.”

The irony in being declared right-wing is not lost on Murphy, who grew up with a Marxist father. She describes herself as a “socialist feminist” but says being labelled right-wing is used by her detractors an “easy out” from engaging with her arguments. However, her views have been embraced by the farthest reaches of American conservatism, something which she says is “not comfortable” but at least shows “they are willing to engage” – while those on the left just want to silence her.

Bolding mine.

So is she just coming to this realization now, or finally admitting to it ?

I'm no fan of Murphy, ever since she outed herself as a ageist douchbag

I’d like to walk down the street in a dress without feeling like some 60 year old dude is ******* me with his eyes. It’s gross, not flattering. I don’t need the gaze of a 60 year old man to validate my existence. All that gaze does is make me hate 60 year old men.

But it is funny listening to her complain about "young people"

When women were fighting for the rights we have now – which so many take for granted – those women were dismissed as crazy and radical. Young people think of all of that as insignificant. And that is upsetting.”

This is kind of like watching a pod of killer whales pigging out of a herd of seals. You don't know who to root for. The Orcas because they're just doing what Orcas do and everybody gotta eat, or the cute fluffy seals. Now exactly who is who in this analogy is up to you and your preferred political affiliations.

Or maybe a better analogy would be watching auto racing. Sure it's sort of interesting watching the cars go around the track but the real excitement, the stuff everybody wants, are the crashes.

 

[sadhatter]

Rather than screaming into the void maybe take a moment to reflect that the good news is that you probably don't have gender dysphoria then?

There are a whole host of things that I don't understand fully and don't really 'get' but I am willing to accept that they are real things, and that other people indeed may have knowledge, experiences and emotions that I do not share.

Ghosts
Aliens
Telekinesis
Psychics.

If hypocrisy was still a thing I'd accuse you of it.

 

[sadhatter]

When you say "many", are you suggesting than some significant percentage of 'activist "trans women"' are bullies?

Would you like to clarify how large a percentage you believe that to be?

Evidence by anecdote isn't really helpful. I'm pretty sure that for every example of a transwoman you can find who is acting like a bully I can find several where they are not.

And without too much difficulty find anti-trans "activists" who are.

The poster would have been more accurate saying "the loudest trans activists are often bullies".

And the problem is we live in an age where being loud is more important than being right. So those are the people that get rallied behind.

The problem isn't trans folks or conservative folks. The problem is we let the loudest ,most extreme 3 per cent be our mouthpieces because we are more concerned with rustling jimmies than actually coming to a conclusion that is fair or logical.

If this was not the most extreme 3 power cent on both sides being icons we would have a hell of a lot more progress at this point in time. And as a personal opinion the pile of **** with a bad tupee wouldn't be president.

 

[p0lka]

It seems very clear from Meadmaker's post that he does indeed think the death of that baby is tragic.

really? It just looked like a factual statement to me.

I'm not clear why you think Archie asked "You glad?" if not to insinuate that Meadmaker was, but maybe you think he was just generally uncertain and was asking out of concern for the answer?

If Meadmaker brought it up then it is not offtopic to reply to it.

Meadmaker is very clearly not glad that the baby died. No sane person is. That should be assumed by anyone.

I'm not keen on assumptions, I think there's an expression somewhere, that points the problem out?

He furthermore seems upset that trans ideology contributed to baby's death, in so much as if the mother had simply said "I'm a woman" then the death would have been avoided. Anyone who is more concerned with the baby's life than the feelings of the mother should be able to see this.

It's possible that the death could have been avoided in other ways. If the hospital had some option for "transman" instead of just male or female, and if it's staff were familiar enough with the term, perhaps that could work, but it does increase the complexity of the situation and that inevitably leads to mistakes with people who are overworked, sleep deprived, etc. If we can't even get doctors to wash their hands, anything that makes their job simpler seems like a good idea, including putting biological sex on forms rather than gender.

I'm addressing the accusation of being offtopic when you reply to meadmakers 'her baby is dead' statement.

It's not offtopic, there might be ways to project your own shizzle on to it to seem that way, but it would be incorrect to do so.

 

[Roboramma]

really? It just looked like a factual statement to me.


If Meadmaker brought it up then it is not offtopic to reply to it.


I'm not keen on assumptions, I think there's an expression somewhere, that points the problem out?



I'm addressing the accusation of being offtopic when you reply to meadmakers 'her baby is dead' statement.

It's not offtopic, there might be ways to project your own shizzle on to it to seem that way, but it would be incorrect to do so.

I didn't claim it was offtopic. Someone else said that "you glad?" was insulting, and you disagreed with that. I was disagreeing with you because the "you glad?" comment was in fact insulting.

 

[Meadmaker]

Ahh, my favorite ISF sport, arguing about whether or not someone said something. Well, we have a quote, and even a multiquote function. It shouldn't be too hard.

Well, at any rate, I think this was the post that started this sub-discussion.

re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

That post occurred prior to any mention of "off topic".

Now, POlka, if you didn't understand what I meant in my original post about a dead baby, or the subsequent question about whether or not I was glad it is dead, Roboramma got it right.

It seems very clear from Meadmaker's post that he does indeed think the death of that baby is tragic. I'm not clear why you think Archie asked "You glad?" if not to insinuate that Meadmaker was, but maybe you think he was just generally uncertain and was asking out of concern for the answer?

Meadmaker is very clearly not glad that the baby died. No sane person is. That should be assumed by anyone.

He furthermore seems upset that trans ideology contributed to baby's death, in so much as if the mother had simply said "I'm a woman" then the death would have been avoided. Anyone who is more concerned with the baby's life than the feelings of the mother should be able to see this.

It's possible that the death could have been avoided in other ways. If the hospital had some option for "transman" instead of just male or female, and if it's staff were familiar enough with the term, perhaps that could work, but it does increase the complexity of the situation and that inevitably leads to mistakes with people who are overworked, sleep deprived, etc. If we can't even get doctors to wash their hands, anything that makes their job simpler seems like a good idea, including putting biological sex on forms rather than gender.

As for what Archie meant when he asked me if I was glad, I think Archie would have to answer that one. I could speculate, but that often leads to poor results. I will say that I think he had something in mind, but the something he had in mind wasn't reflected very well in what he actually wrote. It happens.

 

[quadraginta]

The poster would have been more accurate saying "the loudest trans activists are often bullies".

<snip>

And would have been even more accurate had they said, "some of the loudest trans activists can sometimes be bullies"

But I don't think accuracy was the goal.

Demonization was.