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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 28

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Slick Pete's comment on the hysterical current Front Page TJMK article on Italy's request for a G.Chamber referral:

Great work. You show up a huge mistake in the ECHR reasoning, which the Rome Ministry of Justice lawyers may not pick up on unless we advise them.

So now Slick Pete thinks the Rome Ministry of Justice lawyers need his and (what's left of) his comedy crew's legal advice!
They think they're the Scooby Doo Gang!


AK and RS: DARN! We'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids over on TJMK!
 
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It will be interesting if Italy's request for referral to the Grand Chamber is accepted for the case Knox v. Italy. Currently, there are only 22 cases pending before the Grand Chamber, since the GC Panel applies a very strict scrutiny to requests for referral and accepts only cases it finds are exceptional, in accordance with Convention Article 43.

On its website, the ECHR has a schedule of the cases pending before the Grand Chamber and, for each, the date of the hearing (which is almost always broadcast online).

Today, 15 May, 2019, there will be a hearing of the case S.M. v. Croatia broadcast, and watching will give those who are interested an impression of the type of issues that the ECHR considers in these Grand Chamber cases. Each Grand Chamber hearing consists of presentations from the lawyers of the two parties and questions from the Grand Chamber judges. The judgments are not published until many months or sometimes even 1 or 2 years after the hearing.

Source: ttps://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=hearings/gcpending&c=
 
It will be interesting if Italy's request for referral to the Grand Chamber is accepted for the case Knox v. Italy. Currently, there are only 22 cases pending before the Grand Chamber, since the GC Panel applies a very strict scrutiny to requests for referral and accepts only cases it finds are exceptional, in accordance with Convention Article 43.

On its website, the ECHR has a schedule of the cases pending before the Grand Chamber and, for each, the date of the hearing (which is almost always broadcast online).

Today, 15 May, 2019, there will be a hearing of the case S.M. v. Croatia broadcast, and watching will give those who are interested an impression of the type of issues that the ECHR considers in these Grand Chamber cases. Each Grand Chamber hearing consists of presentations from the lawyers of the two parties and questions from the Grand Chamber judges. The judgments are not published until many months or sometimes even 1 or 2 years after the hearing.

Source: ttps://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=hearings/gcpending&c=

From the issues brought out in the webcast* of the Grand Chamber hearing of S. M. v. Croatia, there could be some similarity in the request for referral, not yet reviewed by the GC Panel, in Knox v. Italy to the request for referral approved by the GC Panel and heard 15 May 2019 by the Grand Chamber in S. M. v. Croatia.

In S. M. v. Croatia, a woman, S. M., complained to the police that she had been forced into prostitution by a man, who was a former police officer. A document was issued by an agency of the Croatian government, stating that S. M. was a victim of human trafficking. It is claimed by the Croatian government that this document is merely an administrative measure, used to provide aid to a potential victim, and not a finding that the alleged victim is legally a person who is a victim of human trafficking. The man accused by S. M. of trafficking her was tried on such charges and finally acquitted. S. M., in her application to the ECHR, claimed that not all the evidence or witnesses she had suggested to the authorities were introduced or heard in the domestic trial. The ECHR found based on the record that this claim was true and that was largely the basis for its Chamber judgment that Croatia had violated Convention Article 4 (prohibition of slavery and forced labor) in its procedural branch.

The Croatian government argues in the Grand Chamber hearing that the evidence showed, in reality, that S. M. had voluntarily been a prostitute, that her application to the ECHR was merely seeking a reversal or expression of disapproval of the acquittal of the man who allegedly had trafficked her, and that the ECHR Chamber had overstepped its limitations of subsidiarity, that is, failing to respect the "margin of appreciation" owed to a state. Thus, there was no violation of Article 4 in the procedural branch.

In Knox v. Italy, I envision the possibility of Italy making similar arguments. It might claim that Knox's application is merely seeking a reversal or expression of disapproval of her final conviction for calunnia, that because she was, under the Italian government's view, a witness under Italian law when she made her first statement against Lumumba, and because in the Italian government's view, she did not suffer any coercion that would have made the interpreter's extraneous remarks influence Knox's statement, the Chamber judgment must be considered an overstepping of the limitations of subsidiarity, a failure to respect the "margin of appreciation" owed to a state.

We'll see whether Italy's request for referral is accepted or, as are most requests, rejected. And if it should be accepted, it's essentially certain that there will be interesting legal issues addressed.

*a better term than "broadcast", and the actual term used by the ECHR
 
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From the issues brought out in the webcast* of the Grand Chamber hearing of S. M. v. Croatia, there could be some similarity in the request for referral, not yet reviewed by the GC Panel, in Knox v. Italy to the request for referral approved by the GC Panel and heard 15 May 2019 by the Grand Chamber in S. M. v. Croatia.

In S. M. v. Croatia, a woman, S. M., complained to the police that she had been forced into prostitution by a man, who was a former police officer. A document was issued by an agency of the Croatian government, stating that S. M. was a victim of human trafficking. It is claimed by the Croatian government that this document is merely an administrative measure, used to provide aid to a potential victim, and not a finding that the alleged victim is legally a person who is a victim of human trafficking. The man accused by S. M. of trafficking her was tried on such charges and finally acquitted. S. M., in her application to the ECHR, claimed that not all the evidence or witnesses she had suggested to the authorities were introduced or heard in the domestic trial. The ECHR found based on the record that this claim was true and that was largely the basis for its Chamber judgment that Croatia had violated Convention Article 4 (prohibition of slavery and forced labor) in its procedural branch.

The Croatian government argues in the Grand Chamber hearing that the evidence showed, in reality, that S. M. had voluntarily been a prostitute, that her application to the ECHR was merely seeking a reversal or expression of disapproval of the acquittal of the man who allegedly had trafficked her, and that the ECHR Chamber had overstepped its limitations of subsidiarity, that is, failing to respect the "margin of appreciation" owed to a state. Thus, there was no violation of Article 4 in the procedural branch.

In Knox v. Italy, I envision the possibility of Italy making similar arguments. It might claim that Knox's application is merely seeking a reversal or expression of disapproval of her final conviction for calunnia, that because she was, under the Italian government's view, a witness under Italian law when she made her first statement against Lumumba, and because in the Italian government's view, she did not suffer any coercion that would have made the interpreter's extraneous remarks influence Knox's statement, the Chamber judgment must be considered an overstepping of the limitations of subsidiarity, a failure to respect the "margin of appreciation" owed to a state.

We'll see whether Italy's request for referral is accepted or, as are most requests, rejected. And if it should be accepted, it's essentially certain that there will be interesting legal issues addressed.

*a better term than "broadcast", and the actual term used by the ECHR

Here are the concluding paragraphs of the Chamber judgment in S. M. v. Croatia, which may provide a better understanding of the issues (which include questions relevant to the Knox case: What constitutes coercion? What is the relevance of psychological factors? What are the obligations of a state when it is presented a complaint by an alleged victim?):

"79. The Court notes the applicant’s allegations of being economically dependent on T.M. and of various forms of coercion he had allegedly used against her such as stressing being a former policeman who had had “an arsenal of weapons”, making threats of hurting her family and manipulating her with false promises that he would find her a “proper job” (see paragraph 9 above) as well as M.I.’s statement that the applicant had been very distressed and scared of T.M. who had continued to threaten the applicant through social media network when she had lived with M.I. (see paragraph 10 above). There is no indication that the national authorities made a serious attempt to investigate in depth these circumstances, which were all relevant for assessing whether T.M. had forced the applicant into prostitution. It appears that no consideration was given to the fact that during the search of T.M.’s premises the police had found several pieces of automatic rifles (see paragraph 8 above). The national courts did not give adequate attention to these elements and concluded that the applicant had given sexual services voluntarily. Furthermore, the Court notes that according to Croatian law, the United Nations Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and the Exploitation of the Prostitution of Others and the Council of Europe Anti-trafficking Convention, the consent of the victim is irrelevant (see above, paragraphs 24-25, 27 and 33).

80. The Court further notes that the national courts dismissed the applicant’s testimony as unreliable because they deemed her statement as being incoherent, that she had been unsure and that she had paused and hesitated when speaking (see paragraphs 18 and 35 above). The national authorities did not make any assessment of the possible impact of psychological trauma on the applicant’s ability to consistently and clearly relate the circumstances of her exploitation. The Court, given the vulnerability of the victims of sexually-related offences, also accepts that the encounter with T.M. in the courtroom could have had an adverse effect on the applicant, regardless of T.M. being subsequently removed from the courtroom (see paragraph 15 above).

(iv) Conclusion

81. In conclusion, the Court considers that the above elements demonstrate that, in the particular circumstances of this case, the relevant State authorities did not fulfil their procedural obligations under Article 4 of the Convention. There has accordingly been a violation of Article 4 of the Convention."
 
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Slick Pete's comment on the hysterical current Front Page TJMK article on Italy's request for a G.Chamber referral:

Great work. You show up a huge mistake in the ECHR reasoning, which the Rome Ministry of Justice lawyers may not pick up on unless we advise them.
So now Slick Pete thinks the Rome Ministry of Justice lawyers need his and (what's left of) his comedy crew's legal advice!
They think they're the Scooby Doo Gang!


AK and RS: DARN! We'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids over on TJMK!

Wait.

A.

Minute.

Peter Quennell is always citing "100s of lawyers in Italy" as being his source for his theories and factoids.

Now he has to personally advise the Rome Ministry of Justice lawyers himself, or they won't pick up on what to his is obvious?

Those 100s of lawyers in Italy working for PQ must be really incompetent!
 
Wait.

A.

Minute.

Peter Quennell is always citing "100s of lawyers in Italy" as being his source for his theories and factoids.

Now he has to personally advise the Rome Ministry of Justice lawyers himself, or they won't pick up on what to his is obvious?

Those 100s of lawyers in Italy working for PQ must be really incompetent!

You're underestimating all those legal geniuses over on TJMK. After all, their claims that Knox and Sollecito would be definitively convicted and spending 20+ years in prison were all correct. Oh...wait......
But then, they were right when they said that Knox would be arrested if she set foot in Europe. Oh...darn....

Ok...so Knox did lose the defamation suit brought by the police and Mignini and Sollecito and Gumbel did lose that suit against their book.

Oh. Never mind.
 
You're underestimating all those legal geniuses over on TJMK. After all, their claims that Knox and Sollecito would be definitively convicted and spending 20+ years in prison were all correct. Oh...wait......
But then, they were right when they said that Knox would be arrested if she set foot in Europe. Oh...darn....

Ok...so Knox did lose the defamation suit brought by the police and Mignini and Sollecito and Gumbel did lose that suit against their book.

Oh. Never mind.

She did visit Ireland and Germany already and I forget, when is her speaking engagement in Italy?
 
She did visit Ireland and Germany already and I forget, when is her speaking engagement in Italy?

June 13-15 is the conference. When she'll actually arrive/leave Italy is anyone's guess right now. I wonder if it will be on a private chartered jet again?:D
 
June 13-15 is the conference. When she'll actually arrive/leave Italy is anyone's guess right now. I wonder if it will be on a private chartered jet again?:D

Another one of those British Airways 747s I'm sure.
 
It's rather telling that only 2 people, besides the author herself, have bothered to respond to the latest article on TJMK about Italy's request for referral to the Grand Chamber. Those two people are Quennell and Hopeful. Must be rather disappointing to the author.
 
It's rather telling that only 2 people, besides the author herself, have bothered to respond to the latest article on TJMK about Italy's request for referral to the Grand Chamber. Those two people are Quennell and Hopeful. Must be rather disappointing to the author.

This thing is a dead horse Stacy that we're all beating. I'm somewhat interested that anyone is still interested. But that's about it. I really wonder why Italy requested a referral.

Is there really a legal principle worthwhile. Or are they like Quennell, Hopeful and Vixen and just cant let it go.
 
I think Italy just can't let it go. They were embarrassed in front of the world with the last motivation report. Plus, they don't want to pay the judgment awarded to Knox.
 
I think Italy just can't let it go. They were embarrassed in front of the world with the last motivation report. Plus, they don't want to pay the judgment awarded to Knox.

I think you're two first sentences have merit. It's definitely not the money. This is a pittance. This case was so public that embarrassment seems likely. But considering that the final Italian motivation said the whole thing was a cluster, why look for more embarrassment at being rejected?

I guess in for a penny, in for a pound.
 
I think Italy just can't let it go. They were embarrassed in front of the world with the last motivation report. Plus, they don't want to pay the judgment awarded to Knox.

Most likely, Italy's request for referral of Knox v. Italy to the Grand Chamber is intended: 1) as a delaying tactic by Italy to avoid admitting it violated international law and 2) to show the Italian police, prosecutors and their supporters in the judiciary that the Italian government will strive to provide them with impunity for misconduct.
 
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Most likely, Italy's request for referral of Knox v. Italy to the Grand Chamber is intended: 1) as a delaying tactic by Italy to avoid admitting it violated international law and 2) to show the Italian police, prosecutors and their supporters in the judiciary that the Italian will strive to provide them with impunity for misconduct.

To show Italy's desperation in trying to avoid the ECHR's judgment in the Knox v. Italy case, here's one of the Italian government's poorly reasoned arguments for inadmissibility of some of the claims and the ECHR's response demolishing that argument. The translation from the original French is by Google with my help.

"B. {Alleged} Failure to exhaust domestic remedies in respect of the complaints under Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 (a) and (c) of the Convention

109. The {Italian} Government submitted that, at the time of the introduction of the application, on 24 November 2013, the applicant's conviction for malicious false accusation was not final and that, therefore, this part of the complaint should be declared inadmissible.

110. The Court reiterates that the exhaustion of domestic remedies is assessed, with certain exceptions, at the date of submission of the application to the Court (Baumann v. France, No. 33592/96, § 47, ECHR 2001- V (extracts)).

111. However, it also recalls that it tolerates the completion of the last level of domestic remedies shortly after the filing of the application, but before it is called upon to decide on the admissibility of the application (Zalyan et al. Armenia, Nos. 36894/04 and 3521/07, § 238, March 17, 2016, and Škorjanec v. Croatia, No. 25536/14, § 44, March 28, 2017).

112. In any event, in the present case, the Court notes that the conviction in question was confirmed by the judgment of the Court of Cassation filed on 18 June 2013, at the end of three levels of jurisdiction, and that the reference to the Assize Court of Appeal concerned only the existence of the aggravating circumstance.

113. In view of the foregoing, the objection raised by the Government must be rejected."
 
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Most likely, Italy's request for referral of Knox v. Italy to the Grand Chamber is intended: 1) as a delaying tactic by Italy to avoid admitting it violated international law and 2) to show the Italian police, prosecutors and their supporters in the judiciary that the Italian will strive to provide them with impunity for misconduct.

I agree, although it seems like they are denying the inevitable. Its amazing how authority doesn't like being challenged. I wonder how many requests for referrals are made by the individual states when a the ECHR rules against them? Is this just pro-forma?
 
I agree, although it seems like they are denying the inevitable. Its amazing how authority doesn't like being challenged. I wonder how many requests for referrals are made by the individual states when a the ECHR rules against them? Is this just pro-forma?

I don't know up-to-date statistics for how many requests for referral are made by the respondent states compared to those made by the applicants or both.

However, the ECHR has provided some statistics for requests for referral up to October, 2011, in its publication Practice of the Grand Chamber Panel. From page 4 of that publication:

"Since the entry into force, on 1 November 1998, of Protocol No. 11 to the Convention, the Panel has examined 2,129 requests for referral. 40.01% of these requests (852) were made by respondent Governments, 56.50% (1,203) by applicants and 3.47% (74) by both parties.

Only 110 requests (approximately 5.16% of all requests) have been accepted so far, resulting in the case being referred to the Grand Chamber. Out of these 110 successful requests, 59 (approximately 2.77% of all requests) were made by the respondent Governments, 44 (approximately 2.06% of all requests) by the applicants and 7 (approximately 0.32% of all requests) by both parties.

These statistics show that:

(a) requests for referral are accepted in only a small percentage of cases (slightly more than 5%); indeed, only “exceptional cases” are brought before the Grand Chamber, in accordance with the text and spirit of Article 43 of the Convention;

(b) 53.63% of successful requests were made by the respondent Governments, whereas they submitted only 40.01% of the total number of requests; it can therefore be said that to date, Governments have been significantly more successful than applicants in obtaining referrals;

(c) the total number of referral requests is high (and likely to increase); the Court would therefore have a substantial amount of additional work if the Panel had an obligation to give reasons for each of its decisions of acceptance or rejection.

Finally, it may be noted that to date, the majority of cases (110, as indicated above) brought before the Grand Chamber have been the result of the referral procedure, while only 101 cases have resulted from relinquishment of jurisdiction by a Chamber.* It follows that the Grand Chamber’s caseload has originated in referral in approximately 52.13% of cases and in relinquishment in approximately 47.87% of cases."

* This is another way a case may reach the Grand Chamber - a Chamber decides that the case would be better handled by the larger body, possibly because of its complexity or the lack of existing applicable case-law.

Here's one example of a case that was judged in a state's favor by the Grand Chamber after a judgment against the state by the Chamber and subsequent acceptance by the GC Panel of the state's request for referral. The Grand Chamber judged that display of crucifixes in classrooms of schools run by the government of Italy was not a violation of the Convention, because since there was no instruction in religion in the schools or pressure on the students to follow any religion, the state was within its "margin of appreciation" to display them. Here are excerpts from the legal summaries:

LAUTSI AND OTHERS v. ITALY 30814/06 (Grand Chamber) 18/03/2011

Article 2 of Protocol No. 1

Respect for parents' philosophical convictions

Respect for parents' religious convictions

Display of crucifixes in State-school classrooms: no violation
LAUTSI v. ITALY 30814/06 (Chamber) 03/11/2009

Article 9

Article 9-1

Freedom of religion

Manifest religion or belief

Article 2 of Protocol No. 1

Respect for parents' philosophical convictions

Respect for parents' religious convictions

Display of crucifixes in State-school classrooms: violation
[This case was referred to the Grand Chamber on 1 March 2010]
 
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I think Italy just can't let it go. They were embarrassed in front of the world with the last motivation report. Plus, they don't want to pay the judgment awarded to Knox.

They knew they took a girl into a middle of the night interrogation room and harassed her into signing a document as a suspect with no lawyer and no witnesses (tape recorder). They should've left it at that but they took a big gamble with the egregious calunnia charge to get Patrick's testimony and the statement in front of the jury and now they're crying it backfired. What sore losers haha
 
They knew they took a girl into a middle of the night interrogation room and harassed her into signing a document as a suspect with no lawyer and no witnesses (tape recorder). They should've left it at that but they took a big gamble with the egregious calunnia charge to get Patrick's testimony and the statement in front of the jury and now they're crying it backfired. What sore losers haha

I agree the tactic was to get Lumumba's testimony and statement in front of the jury.
I also suspect Lumumba's tune changing so drastically from claiming the police "hit, kicked, punched and threatened" him to his being "treated well" had two motivations:

1. He could sue both police (wrongful arrest and jailing) AND Knox (calunnia) by claiming he was 'treated well' by the police. He couldn't very well sue Knox for calunnia if he supported her account of being coerced, slapped, and threatened.

2. He was in danger of being sued himself for calunnia by the police if he continued to claim he was abused during is interrogation just like Knox.
 
Those interested in the ECHR may wish to compare the judgment in K.C. v. Romania 45060/10 30/10/2018 (available only in English; Committee judgment, so no press release or legal summary published) with that in Knox v. Italy 76577/13 24/01/2019 (available in French [official], Italian, and Romanian; Chamber judgment, so legal and press summaries available [in English]). Both cases found violations of Convention Articles 6.1 with 6.3c and 6.1 with 6.3e. Both involved use of statements written in an initial interrogation without a lawyer used as evidence to convict (K.C.'s was written by him in English; he is a US national who was studying in Romania). K.C. was denied an interpreter during the initial interrogation, while Knox was provided an interpreter, but that interpreter did not "enable the accused to have knowledge of the case against him or her and to defend him or herself" (paragraph 49 of K.C. v. Romania). Note that the ECHR considered the case K.C. v. Romania so straight-forward in comparison to its case-law that it was reviewed by a 3-judge Committee rather than a 7-judge Chamber.
 
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