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National Emergency

It is a problem. And a big one.

Likely however, it's a symptom of a greater issue. So we have to ask the question, Why are people coming here? They're taking great risks, for a terribly uncertain future. Why?

The most likely answer is: They can make money here, and have a better life.
There are people, and companies willing to hire, and pay illegals to do work. Punish them. Harshly. Very harshly. Of course, that has repercussions of its own. Some jobs will go unfilled, as there are jobs that illegals may do, but Americans will not, at least, not without drastic pay increases that these people and companies can afford.

There's also where the people are fleeing from. Invest in those communities. If quality of life improves, then people may not feel such a need to come to the states illegally.


Won't stop the problem, but it may help?
 
mgidm86 said:
Most of us are upset about this situation, whether you are upset about the treatment of these people once they are here, or the fact that we let them come in at all, or the action/inaction of our government, or all of the above.

Everybody in this thread is upset about some aspect of this and you should be. That should bring people together here, not be a wedge.

We are on the same side as far as that goes, aren't we? This needs to be addressed, correct?

But what exactly needs to be addressed?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/14/politics/border-patrol-mcallen-texas-pictures/index.html

According to this CNN article almost 500,000 people have crossed the border illegally so far this year already (mentioned in video).

Last year was 400,000 for the entire year.

The number of people crossing now is "staggering" according to CNN. Lack of beds, family separations...sounds like an emergency to me. Not a National Emergency, but an emergency.

This article centers on families seen sleeping outside on grass during the day and how much of a problem the overcrowding is.

What do we do about it? We're processing them and setting them loose in our country on a daily basis and we still can't keep up. We shouldn't be expected to be at the ready with enough beds for all these people because this should not be happening at all.

The problem as I see it is how easy it is for them to get in and stay, both politically and geographically/logistically. That is what needs to be addressed.

We can't let over 1 million people per year (and growing) "sneak" into this country - and that's just the illegals on the southern border. They come in at other locations too, plus how many actual immigrants (legal) do we let in yearly and how are they affected by this?

There is no getting around the fact that we cannot let in everyone who wants to be here. That means we need to turn people away and/or remove whatever incentives are attracting so many people in the first place. Does anyone disagree with this?

Neither Repub nor Dem politicians want this issue solved apparently. As I've said here before, they are exploiting these people for power (votes and money) and they are using our empathy to sell it to us.

We all seem to agree there is a problem here, and to me, the core problem is that there are too many illegals getting into our country. It's pretty simple. Even if you don't like that answer and you want them all here we've already seen we simply can't handle the numbers. There are good reasons to limit these numbers - those reasons are in the news every day.

Y'all are bickering about what Stacyhs said 2 pages ago when really we are all looking to solve the same problem.

Unless you think that over a million people per year (and growing) is okay and that we should forever expand our capacity to house and process these people, we agree that there are too many illegals coming in.

There are a lot of reasons for why this is happening, but that is the core problem I think we all should be able to agree on, even here.
Click to expand...

Just to make a possible correction. That would more likely be half a million border crossings in the year, not necessarily half a million illegals. Many thousands of Mexicans cross the border and back to border cities as a daily commute for work, to school, or family visits, or even just for shopping. I rather doubt there are 10,000 Mexicans every week sneaking across the deserts unnoticed. That's one "caravan" every few days non-stop. And at half a million leaving every year, Mexico would be very empty very soon.

But that is not to minimise the severity of the problem at all. It does exist, it is a major problem, and there needs to be a sensible attempt to resolve it. That, in turn, presupposes some thoughtfulness, insight and intelligence will be deployed. ...you ain't gonna get that from the hysterical gun-totin' far-right and the diplomacy blockheads in the White House. They have no clue, which is why they are making it worse.
 
Shalamar said:
It is a problem. And a big one.

Likely however, it's a symptom of a greater issue. So we have to ask the question, Why are people coming here? They're taking great risks, for a terribly uncertain future. Why?

The most likely answer is: They can make money here, and have a better life.
There are people, and companies willing to hire, and pay illegals to do work. Punish them. Harshly. Very harshly. Of course, that has repercussions of its own. Some jobs will go unfilled, as there are jobs that illegals may do, but Americans will not, at least, not without drastic pay increases that these people and companies can afford.

There's also where the people are fleeing from. Invest in those communities. If quality of life improves, then people may not feel such a need to come to the states illegally.


Won't stop the problem, but it may help?
Click to expand...

People don't leave their homes and families for a place where they don't understand the language or culture, have to hide from police and live in constant fear of being caught unless the conditions and dangers of their own home are worse than where they are going. How many Americans are fleeing to Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala? So what does Trump do? He stops humanitarian aid to those very countries inevitably making things worse. Smart thinking there, Stable Genius.:rolleyes:

(I'm adding the sarcasm icon there for those who don't seem to understand when it's being used.)
 
Stacyhs said:
People don't leave their homes and families for a place where they don't understand the language or culture, have to hide from police and live in constant fear of being caught unless the conditions and dangers of their own home are worse than where they are going. How many Americans are fleeing to Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala? So what does Trump do? He stops humanitarian aid to those very countries inevitably making things worse. Smart thinking there, Stable Genius.:rolleyes:

(I'm adding the sarcasm icon there for those who don't seem to understand when it's being used.)
Click to expand...
Humanitarian aid gets gobbled up by corrupt governments. You know what doesn't? Remittances sent directly to family members. There are people pissing and moaning about a labor shortage, but I can't quite pin this down: Once the Central Americans are released, are they allowed to work? Because I believe there are employers willing to hire them.

Re: The idea of "crossings" vs. "illegal crossings." mgidm86's numbers sound plausible to me for illegal crossings. Though if they are looking for asylum, I'm not sure they are entering the country illegally. But those kinds of numbers? Lots of precedent for that. People vote with their feet and go where they can find work. Rather than viewing them as bad, bad queue jumpers I see people who are enterprising enough to get to the U.S. in whatever way they can, probably because gutting chickens for $9 an hour sounds good to them. The can live on that ... and send money home.

Before the midterms Republicans could not agree on a bill that would mandate the use of E-Verify, a government database, in agricultural hiring. Farm states helped beat that. They want a readily accessible and exploitable labor pool.

What it all boils down to, IMO, is these Central Americans showing up in large numbers do not need to be a complete liability. Give at least some of them a chance to contribute to this country. Who knows how loyalty is born? They could end up being some of the very best Americans.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
It seems that in the recent linked case it wasn't anyone coming over the border doing the rape, it was the actual Border Agency people.
I notice there hasn't been any comment on this from Baylor just a lot of diversion.
Click to expand...

That's not what it says. This is why I'm done with links. Few people even read them, and people accuse me of not reading as if just saying that wins an argument. It says the majority of the rapist were unidentified. But the rapists were smugglers who spoke Spanish, so your racial animus is showing. I also didn't think of scoring internet points from rape victims, as if where the rapes took place is some kind of Internet victory. I said it before, I feel dirty just coming here.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Just to make a possible correction. That would more likely be half a million border crossings in the year, not necessarily half a million illegals. Many thousands of Mexicans cross the border and back to border cities as a daily commute for work, to school, or family visits, or even just for shopping. I rather doubt there are 10,000 Mexicans every week sneaking across the deserts unnoticed. That's one "caravan" every few days non-stop. And at half a million leaving every year, Mexico would be very empty very soon.
Click to expand...
Just shows how clueless you are. All this time spent and still this ignorant. 10,000 "Mexicans" don't cross the border every week. Roughly 10,000-20,000 people do. The CNN article you didn't read (see I can do that to, but I have proof you didn't read it) said there were half a million apprehensions, not crossing, for the fiscal year. They're not "unnoticed." Many get apprehended, falsely claim asylum like they've been instructed to do. It's been mentioned here several times in this thread and you still somehow forgot. As for your idiotic "Mexico looking empty." How pathetic and desperate for an argument can you get? Mexico is only one country illegal aliens come from. 1% of Honduras and Guatemala have immigrated to the US illegally since September. If you're going to obsess over this topic, at least be knowledgeable about it.
 
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Baylor said:
That's not what it says. This is why I'm done with links. Few people even read them, and people accuse me of not reading as if just saying that wins an argument. It says the majority of the rapist were unidentified. But the rapists were smugglers who spoke Spanish, so your racial animus is showing. I also didn't think of scoring internet points from rape victims, as if where the rapes took place is some kind of Internet victory. I said it before, I feel dirty just coming here.
Click to expand...

Neither did anyone else.
 
Captain Swoop and that other guy sure did. Where the rapes took place was somehow suppose to be a "gotcha." That one guy said it contradicted something I said. What that something I said was his own hallucinations.
 
Baylor said:
Just shows how clueless you are. All this time spent and still this ignorant. 10,000 "Mexicans" don't cross the border every week. Roughly 10,000-20,000 people do. The CNN article you didn't read (see I can do that to, but I have proof you didn't read it) said there were half a million apprehensions, not crossing, for the fiscal year. They're not "unnoticed." Many get apprehended, falsely claim asylum like they've been instructed to do. It's been mentioned here several times in this thread and you still somehow forgot. As for your idiotic "Mexico looking empty." How pathetic and desperate for an argument can you get? Mexico is only one country illegal aliens come from. 1% of Honduras and Guatemala have immigrated to the US illegally since September. If you're going to obsess over this topic, at least be knowledgeable about it.
Click to expand...

???? Those are Mexican countries too, you know.

images
 
Baylor said:
Captain Swoop and that other guy sure did. Where the rapes took place was somehow suppose to be a "gotcha." That one guy said it contradicted something I said. What that something I said was his own hallucinations.
Click to expand...

Are you finally conceding that I did not?
 
Baylor said:
Captain Swoop and that other guy sure did. Where the rapes took place was somehow suppose to be a "gotcha." That one guy said it contradicted something I said. What that something I said was his own hallucinations.
Click to expand...
You talkin' to me?

It's no joke, because the "gotcha" is that it wasn't Mexicans doing the raping. It's Americans. That's worse. Really worse. It's ******* dreadful.

But if you want to argue that I'm hallucinating and that your own linked source didn't say that, then I don't know what to say to you any more. You are a true Trump disciple. Ignore the facts, even your own. Go on endlessly about a non-existent invasion across your southern border. Cry havoc and shoot the brown bastards! Try to make the awful situation down there some sort of war zone instead of the major humanitarian crisis that it really is that is being ignored by the mafia bullies in the White House.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Four days since anyone last posted here, and that was me. No Yanks have reported anything catastrophic from the southern borders. The media seem fairly quiet.

Is it BAU down there? The usual situation of way not enough resources for overworked border staff to deal with the tens of thousands of perfectly legal crossings every day?

Whatever happened to the "National Emergency"? The tens of thousands of Muslim Marxist Mexican terrorists every week coming to vote illegally for Hillary and bring drugs and rape (secondary, almost forgivable, crimes in the GOP handbook). Although some of them are good people. Seems alarmingly quiet for such a major invasion force...
Click to expand...

Apprehensions for April 2019 were near the 100K mark at 98,977. Yeah, the emergency is still valid.

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Apprehensions for April 2019 were near the 100K mark at 98,977. Yeah, the emergency is still valid.

Chris B.
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How many were asylum seekers and how many were migrant workers who would've been pencil-whipped through in a previous season. It's very well known at the border that seasonal workers always have SOMETHING wrong with their application. Is it a mere coincidence that they started blocking more applications just after Da Boss said there was a National Emergency?

I'll wait to see actual statistics on country of residence before I believe a DHS mouthpiece. (It's the Barr System - loyalty to His Royal Orangeness is a job requirement. He even referred to the full-time secretary, yet to report to work, as a "true believer"!!!)



Forgive my cynicism but a DHS toadie claiming "a lot of Central Americans" is not actual statistics. 1% of the population of Guatemala and Honduras? Since September... that's 8 months (figs last available for October). 25,000 per month on average. Donnie Johnny's thriving economy needs more than 25,000 workers a month (and 2/3 or those are womenz and kidzes).
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Apprehensions for April 2019 were near the 100K mark at 98,977. Yeah, the emergency is still valid.

Chris B.
Click to expand...
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Interesting and revealing graph. Years previous to 2019, the rate was around 50,000 per month, year on year. Trump opens his yap about some "National Emergency" and the rate doubles in a month or two.

Also, "apprehensions" is such a flexible word. Officially it used to mean "entered between border entry ports". Now it means "apprehended by Border Patrol". I think we both know there's a big difference. ;)

And from the same page, 10,000 "inadmissibles" in April. About 10% of those apprehended. I imagine the "terrorists" among them will be detained or thrown back over the fence. So NOT an emergency. Just VERY bad policy enactment.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Interesting and revealing graph. Years previous to 2019, the rate was around 50,000 per month, year on year. Trump opens his yap about some "National Emergency" and the rate doubles in a month or two.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy Theories is that way --------------->

Seriously, are you ever going to follow along? It's been explained in this thread by a member living near the border the reason for the influx. None of it has to do with the crap you keep yammering on about.

You just won't stop saying dumb stuff about a topic you know nothing about.
 
Norman Alexander said:
You talkin' to me?

It's no joke, because the "gotcha" is that it wasn't Mexicans doing the raping. It's Americans. That's worse. Really worse. It's ******* dreadful.
Click to expand...

I didn't mention the ethnicity or race of the rapists but Smugglers/coyotes are Hispanic. Whatever if you think you there's a gotcha somewhere....just imagine it I don't care, this place is just creepy.
 
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