Noose ladies suspended from California school

[casebro]

This measured, considered and well reasoned response from Darren Harper (whoever the **** he is?) to the crass episode sums up the depths to which people will go to create an issue of race where one does not, on the face of it and without further investigation, exist.



The irony is that all the commentators could be described as a modern day lynch mob.

Do you know that whites are a minority in California? And many say it is impossible for a minority to be racist....

 

[casebro]

The jury at Chez Foolmewunz is still out on this. I'd like to hear what they THOUGHT they were doing and what the cryptic comment by the principal meant.

At best, they're just totally clueless to the implications to other races than their own. Particularly since we just had the racial connotations all over the news in the Boeing incident in South Carolina.

I automatically discount:

Reference to Hangman. No. It's not like Wizard's chess. No one has ever played a word game with death seriously on the table. (Unless it's a "here go hang yourself" message but I'd think that would be addressed to the principal.)

Reference to suicide. If it is, it's totally incongruous because of the smiling/laughing pose. Also, most suicide by hanging does not involve a proper noose. ((Unless it's a "here go hang yourself" message but I'd think that would be addressed to the principal.)

A threat to blacks. The district is majority Hispanic with an additional 11% black. And it's an elementary school. Where would the racial animus come from? They've been teaching there for sometime. The usual target would be the principal (da boss) but she's involved in it.

Rustlers. I doubt that area of CA was ever a part of the wild west and haven't heard of gangs of rustlers or horse thieves.


Is there some sort of dispute between the school and district? School politics in CA can be quite messy. Unions have a lot of clout and some issues turn into pitched battles.

I'd like to see some explanation. At present it seems to be a clumsy and insensitive moment, but I'm open to other possibilities.

I sure wish the posted pics were the email in entirety. Obviously edited to maximize the impact.

 

[Meadmaker]

It's more related to your personal and cultural experience than geography.

An American Southerner, especially a POC, would likely have strong connotations to klan lynchings. Hell, black people in general might well have that their first hit.

People who grew up only seeing a noose in horror flicks and Westerns would obviously associate it with them. Someone like lionking, who I gather is Australian, might have no other connotations than what they see in the news (note they referenced 'in the past decade'), which would be strictly the racist murder angle. So they would see it as 'grasping at straws', when other Americans have already posted that they think of nooses in the same way.

In a way, it's weird that there would be a western connotation at all. Hanging was the standard method of execution throughout the US, not just in the western states/territories. However, the Western was a staple of American pop culture in the '50s and '60s, and into the '70s. Since a lot of the theme of Westerns involved outlaws, gunfights, and crime in general, there were an awful lot more hangings in Westerns than there were in movies set in New York City. For those of us who grew up in that era, that makes the association between hangings and Westerns pretty common, despite the fact that it could be part of darned near any historical movie set any time before the noose was replaced with more "high tech" ways of killing people.

 

[catsmate]

Rustlers. I doubt that area of CA was ever a part of the wild west and haven't heard of gangs of rustlers or horse thieves.

There have been numerous lynchings in California, the last was (IIRR) 1933.

ETA: 1935. And 352 are known and documented. There's a book about them: Lynching in the West: 1850–1935 by Ken Gonzales-Day

 

[qayak]

I sure wish the posted pics were the email in entirety. Obviously edited to maximize the impact.

I've been looking for all the details but tgey are hard to come by at this point. Could just be a Fake Noose story.

 

[bluesjnr]

Are you suggesting that the commentators believe the teachers should be publicly executed without trial?

No, and that is plainly obvious in my observation.

While expressing disdain for them, calling them racists, and calling for their summary dismissal may be excessive, or at least premature, it will never be lynching, and I think it's really important to remember this.

OK.

Fuzzing the distinction smacks of the same kind of cluelessness that gives rise to incidents like this in the first place.

Isn't that what you have just done with my post?

 

[bluesjnr]

Do you know that whites are a minority in California? And many say it is impossible for a minority to be racist....

No and I'm not sure what point you wish to make?

 

[3point14]

And many say it is impossible for a minority to be racist....

Very Trumpian.

 

[Elagabalus]

...Rustlers. I doubt that area of CA was ever a part of the wild west and haven't heard of gangs of rustlers or horse thieves...

Begging your pardon there, cuz', but ain't you being just a might dismissive about these parts? Now, I don't about how it were back in ... where'd you say you was from again... that's it, sultry Nawlins? But around here, back in the day, to get to the train depot one had to take a stagecoach or two and that might include the stage being held up at gun point by a bunch of no good, thievin', ne'er-do-wells of the malicious sort.

And, excuse me, but Palmdale? That don't sound like a town that might be a little collectively addle brained? You see, out here, one tries to avoid livin' in towns ending in 'dale or 'ville (on account of the hick factor being a might too high especially if they ain't on the coast). Anyways, how about some good ol' skulduggery over water rights? Didn't you say in another thread that you was partial to that talkie "Chinatown"? Well, I believe that the main protagonist in that film takes a trip out to Palmdale or environs, don't he?

Say, just down the road from Palmdale is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasquez_Rocks. Many a fine western has been made there.* Why, I reckon that maybe all the fine westerns being made there has made quite an impression on your average Palmdalian. What do you reckon?


*Hell, Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey was on last night and I'd be lyin' if I didn't say that it tickles my funny bone to see ol' Bill and Ted made to climb up Vasquez Rocks by the evil us's right after they'd been watching Star Trek TOS S01E18 "Arena"!

 

[Roboramma]

I think you are clutching at straws to defend the indefensible. You would have to live in a cave not to get the symbolism of a noose in this age.

The picture seems pretty stupid, but what exactly do you think they were trying to say with it? Are they racists trying to intimidate black students hoping that they'll leave the school? Or something less direct but still racist, like just trying to create an atmosphere of intimidation to "keep them in their place"?

The whole thing seems weird to me, so I don't really know, but I'm not really sure I understand exactly what racist thing they are meant to have been doing.

Maybe just insensitivity in understanding how the noose will be perceived by others? Or understanding that perception but not caring about it (rather than deliberately trying to invoke it)?

 

[lionking]

The picture seems pretty stupid, but what exactly do you think they were trying to say with it? Are they racists trying to intimidate black students hoping that they'll leave the school? Or something less direct but still racist, like just trying to create an atmosphere of intimidation to "keep them in their place"?

The whole thing seems weird to me, so I don't really know, but I'm not really sure I understand exactly what racist thing they are meant to have been doing.

Maybe just insensitivity in understanding how the noose will be perceived by others? Or understanding that perception but not caring about it (rather than deliberately trying to invoke it)?

I don’t know what their motivation was. But here we have professional people who should be aware of how their actions will be reasonably interpreted.

In the US, with it’s not so ancient history, goofing off around a noose is not saying “let’s go out and lasso a cow” it’s saying “let’s (hopefully symbolically) lynch someone”. How else can this be interpreted in America in this day and age? We have had some fanciful reasons given in this thread, like it being about the word game (risible) or old cowboy movies (a little better, but still far fetched).

 

[Roboramma]

I don’t know what their motivation was. But here we have professional people who should be aware of how their actions will be reasonably interpreted.

Well, the interpretation of their actions is necessarily an interpretation of motivations.

In the US, with it’s not so ancient history, goofing off around a noose is not saying “let’s go out and lasso a cow” it’s saying “let’s (hopefully symbolically) lynch someone”. How else can this be interpreted in America in this day and age? We have had some fanciful reasons given in this thread, like it being about the word game (risible) or old cowboy movies (a little better, but still far fetched).

It's very possible that I'm just naive about the extent of racism in America, but I just have a hard time attributing that kind of motivation to anyone, it's seems insane.

Maybe you are right and these women really are that crazy. But while I've met some racist people, I've literally never met anyone even approaching that level of racism. I'm not American, though, and my not having encountered it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but... it just seems more likely to me that they were clueless than being so racist as that.

As I said I might just be living blissfully unaware of the reality, however.

 

[bruto]

Well, the interpretation of their actions is necessarily an interpretation of motivations.



It's very possible that I'm just naive about the extent of racism in America, but I just have a hard time attributing that kind of motivation to anyone, it's seems insane.

Maybe you are right and these women really are that crazy. But while I've met some racist people, I've literally never met anyone even approaching that level of racism. I'm not American, though, and my not having encountered it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but... it just seems more likely to me that they were clueless than being so racist as that.

As I said I might just be living blissfully unaware of the reality, however.

Though I've lived most of my life in the relatively mild and racially non-contentious wilds of rural New England, I have. It's rare in my direct experience, but it's surprising, frightening and disgusting.

It seems to be fashionable these days to go ahead and say or do stuff that's offensive and hateful, and if called on it to back off and say it was all a joke, or to get all pearl-clutching about being the victims of political correctness, but I just don't believe it, just as I don't believe anyone could be stupid enough to feign surprise when accused of racism for depicting a racially mixed baby as a chimpanzee or wearing blackface to a frat party. Unless these people have been living under a rock for half their lives, they damned well know what things mean.

 

[Elagabalus]

I don’t know what their motivation was. But here we have professional people who should be aware of how their actions will be reasonably interpreted.

In the US, with it’s not so ancient history, goofing off around a noose is not saying “let’s go out and lasso a cow” it’s saying “let’s (hopefully symbolically) lynch someone”. How else can this be interpreted in America in this day and age? We have had some fanciful reasons given in this thread, like it being about the word game (risible) or old cowboy movies (a little better, but still far fetched).

My job sucks, just shoot me? Or hang me?

 

[lionking]

My job sucks, just shoot me? Or hang me?

A link to a 20 year old TV show? You’re joking aren’t you? You know that “shoot” in that show’s name refers to photography don’t you?

There have been many laughable attempted defences of these idiots, but this just takes the cake.

 

[cullennz]

It's more related to your personal and cultural experience than geography.

An American Southerner, especially a POC, would likely have strong connotations to klan lynchings. Hell, black people in general might well have that their first hit.

People who grew up only seeing a noose in horror flicks and Westerns would obviously associate it with them. Someone like lionking, who I gather is Australian, might have no other connotations than what they see in the news (note they referenced 'in the past decade'), which would be strictly the racist murder angle. So they would see it as 'grasping at straws', when other Americans have already posted that they think of nooses in the same way.

Forgive me if I am wrong

But your post seems to agree it is a geographical thing while trying to argue it isn't a geographical thing

Having never been to the US the only association I have with nooses is executions of anyone and a few mates offing themselves.

Now I fully appreciate in the US this might be different, but you can't tell me a lot of people in the US don't have the same connections

 

[fuelair]

Malice, stupidity and all of that. Maybe I'm more sympathetic audience as anyone can win me over with a little gallows humor. And everybody has gaps in their knowledge. I recently heard about a co-ed who grew up believing Alaska and Hawaii were in close proximity, which confounded her as Alaska is famously cold and Hawaii is famously tropical. How could she believe such a foolish thing? Because they're bunched together in the lower left corner of U.S. maps!

Sad, but likely true of a number of people who are uncomfortable with certain ways maps arrange things that are not consistant (though perfectly logical) with where odd locations are placed and why that helps when people who understand maps have no trouble with such.

 

[fuelair]

Ok. What were they joking about with a noose: a hangman kind of thing, or lynching? Maybe a tasteless gag about suicide being the retirement plan in the district?

Seriously, I'd like to hear their story. As discussed on the Boeing thread, lynching is skmethkng that doesn't jump out as a noose connotation. Maybe it's a regional thing, I dunno.

I feel compelled to ask: were you sleepy or is there a keyboard problem. Not so much that it occurred, but that it was not noticed and corrected.....

 

[mgidm86]

I don’t know what their motivation was. But here we have professional people who should be aware of how their actions will be reasonably interpreted.

In the US, with it’s not so ancient history, goofing off around a noose is not saying “let’s go out and lasso a cow” it’s saying “let’s (hopefully symbolically) lynch someone”. How else can this be interpreted in America in this day and age? We have had some fanciful reasons given in this thread, like it being about the word game (risible) or old cowboy movies (a little better, but still far fetched).

People can't control how a vocal minority of idiots are going to react to such a mundane photograph. There is nothing reasonable about this reaction.

Yes, nooses were used in California folks. We had at least one town known as "Hangtown" and that had nothing to do with blacks or slavery, sorry.

But we're supposed to accept that "everyone knows" what a noose means these days? It may mean that to you hyper-sensitive types but please leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

The jury at Chez Foolmewunz is still out on this. I'd like to hear what they THOUGHT they were doing and what the cryptic comment by the principal meant.

No, in this era of Internet call-out culture we must immediately assume the worst and shame and punish the perpetrators accordingly.