Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

Baylor said:
Throughout the United States, if Law Enforcement finds a prescription drug that is in the possession of someone to which it is not prescribed, they confiscate it. This is not waived because you are attempting to enter the US illegally.
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And no one is suggesting that. If you could read for understanding, you'd realize that I wasn't arguing against that. Simply pointing out that if a person is taking prescription antibiotics (as opposed to, say, opiates) that aren't theirs it's probably because they think they are ill.

Even prisoners of war, not only NOT U.S. citizens but actively hostile to the U.S., are provided with medical care. Civilian prisons in the U.S. have medical personnel on staff. Heck, we don't even execute someone unless they're well.

But somehow that doesn't apply to detained immigrants?

You're trying desperately to point over there, but we can see the issue here.
 
Hellbound said:
And no one is suggesting that. If you could read for understanding, you'd realize that I wasn't arguing against that. Simply pointing out that if a person is taking prescription antibiotics (as opposed to, say, opiates) that aren't theirs it's probably because they think they are ill.

Even prisoners of war, not only NOT U.S. citizens but actively hostile to the U.S., are provided with medical care. Civilian prisons in the U.S. have medical personnel on staff. Heck, we don't even execute someone unless they're well.

But somehow that doesn't apply to detained immigrants?
You're trying desperately to point over there, but we can see the issue here.
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CBP detention centers do have medical staff on hand; it's been mentioned several times throughout these threads on illegal immigration. It is free (like Europe), but patients usually have wait before being seen (like Europe). Please stop trying desperately to paint US law enforcement in a bad light as it gives the gullible non-Americans members of this board a comic book interpretation of the US.
 
Baylor said:
CBP detention centers do have medical staff on hand; it's been mentioned several times throughout these threads on illegal immigration. It is free (like Europe), but patients usually have wait before being seen (like Europe). Please stop trying desperately to paint US law enforcement in a bad light as it gives the gullible non-Americans members of this board a comic book interpretation of the US.
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If children are dying while medical staff are on hand that may not be the worst of bad light, but it's kind of flickering.
 
bruto said:
If children are dying while medical staff are on hand that may not be the worst of bad light, but it's kind of flickering.
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In the United States, if an abused and neglected child is brought to the care of medical professionals, and the child ends up dying, the cause of death is typically blamed on the child's caregiver(s), not the medical staff.
 
Baylor said:
CBP detention centers do have medical staff on hand; it's been mentioned several times throughout these threads on illegal immigration. It is free (like Europe), but patients usually have wait before being seen (like Europe). Please stop trying desperately to paint US law enforcement in a bad light as it gives the gullible non-Americans members of this board a comic book interpretation of the US.
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Then America should stop aspiring to base policies on comic books.

Quite frankly, ICE under Trump has done a swell job of turning off the lights and unscrewing the bulbs all on it's own.

Also, evidence that this death is the result of neglect from the caregiver, please?

And quite frankly, they were detainees. The caregiver up to and at the time of death was ICE.

And finally, yes, sometimes these things happen. When they seem to be happening more frequently, and because of a wrong-headed policy to begin with, they aren't just "things that happen" anymore. Much in the same way that you can't say "oh, it's not our fault, they're just accidents" after you fight to repeal seat belt laws, say.
 
Hellbound said:
And finally, yes, sometimes these things happen. When they seem to be happening more frequently
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Do they seem to be happening more frequently? Or do they actually happen more frequently? There's a significant difference. The press has an incentive to make the former happen regardless of whether the latter is happening.
 
Hellbound said:
And no one is suggesting that. If you could read for understanding, you'd realize that I wasn't arguing against that. Simply pointing out that if a person is taking prescription antibiotics (as opposed to, say, opiates) that aren't theirs it's probably because they think they are ill.

Even prisoners of war, not only NOT U.S. citizens but actively hostile to the U.S., are provided with medical care. Civilian prisons in the U.S. have medical personnel on staff. Heck, we don't even execute someone unless they're well.

But somehow that doesn't apply to detained immigrants?

You're trying desperately to point over there, but we can see the issue here.
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To be fair to ICE, medical neglect is a common form of abuse visited on inmates are regular jails and prisons all across this fine country. There are plenty of stories of regular prisoners being denied or delayed in receiving prescribed medication resulting in poor health outcomes including death.

This is not to say that this treatment is acceptable, but to say it is standard prison fare in this country and not special to CBP camps.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
To be fair to ICE, medical neglect is a common form of abuse visited on inmates are regular jails and prisons all across this fine country. There are plenty of stories of regular prisoners being denied or delayed in receiving prescribed medication resulting in poor health outcomes including death.

This is not to say that this treatment is acceptable, but to say it is standard prison fare in this country and not special to CBP camps.
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There is truth in that. My biggest issue is that the policies enacted, the whole "detain everyone" idea, are increasing the likelihood of this type of thing by fostering the environment it happens in.

And really, taking someone else's antibiotics is a far different sort of crime than (for example) taking someone else's opiates; a type that should be a clue that something is wrong.
 
Baylor said:
In the United States, if an abused and neglected child is brought to the care of medical professionals, and the child ends up dying, the cause of death is typically blamed on the child's caregiver(s), not the medical staff.
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So if the caregivers and the medical staff are the same agency, they run around in circles and turn into butter?
 
https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1091533510505086976

BREAKING: Tonight the Trump administration filed documents that don’t dispute the recent report that there may have been thousands more separated kids. They’re arguing it would take too long to figure out where those kids are because they have no tracking system.

[...]

This response is a shocking concession that the government can’t easily find thousands of children it ripped from parents, and doesn’t even think it’s worth the time to locate each of them.

We will be back in court on February 21.
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I agree, all those illegals that we set free to run around our country for two years while they wait for a court date that many won't attend are definitely a problem. We need to stop doing that.
 
mgidm86 said:
I agree, all those illegals that we set free to run around our country for two years while they wait for a court date that many won't attend are definitely a problem. We need to stop doing that.
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Except most DO show up for their hearings.
 
Border Reiver said:
Except most DO show up for their hearings.
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That doesn't contradict what he said. "Most" means a majority, but "many" can still be a minority. And it absolutely is many. For example, if we take Politifact's numbers:
https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...ty-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/
In fiscal year 2016, 61% of judgments regarding undocumented immigrants were made with the person in court. 39% were made in absentia. 39% is not "most", but at more than 34 thousand individuals who skipped court, it sure as hell is many. Furthermore, that's the percentage of the total of immigration court cases. Not all judgments are for removal. We can reasonably expect that the attendance rate for those who end up with removal orders will be lower, for obvious reasons. Measured that way, it might even be a majority.
 
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mgidm86 said:
I agree, all those illegals that we set free to run around our country for two years while they wait for a court date that many won't attend are definitely a problem. We need to stop doing that.
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I see no indication there was anything “illegal” other than the abductions themselves. Remember the Trump process is being applied to people following US laws, and international accepted norms, for refugees. There is nothing illegal about showing up in the US and asking for refugee status.
 
Member of border militia that detained 200 migrants at gunpoint told police another member had said, “Why are we...not lining them up and shooting them? We have to go back to Hitler days and put them all in a gas chamber” per report obtained under FOIA.

“Why are we just apprehending them and not lining them up and shooting them,” a border militia member in New Mexico is alleged to have said of border migrants that the group had been monitoring.

“We have to go back to Hitler days and put them all in a gas chamber,” the militia member, Armando Gonzalez, is also alleged to have said. Gonzalez did not respond to multiple requests for comment by TYT.

…

On April 18, the border militia, which calls itself the United Constitutional Patriots (UCP), sparked national outrage after reportedly detaining about 200 border migrants, including several children, at gunpoint. After video surfaced appearing to show UCP impersonating Border Patrol — a federal offense — the FBI arrested UCP’s leader, Larry Mitchell Hopkins,.

Although the police report obtained by TYT does not mention UCP by name, Daniel Carranco, Sunland Park City Clerk, confirmed to TYT that UCP is the group referenced.
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This is inspiring the best deplorables.
 
From that source:
According to the Times, Gonzalez [the alleged speaker of the above statements] identified himself as an Army veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder.
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Awesome! PTSD sufferer is given access to high-powered weapons. What could possibly go wrong!
 
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