Mueller Investigation pt 6

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Skeptic Ginger said:
And he still makes promises he can't keep and people keep believing this will be the one he keeps.

A current lie is he's going to put Democrats in jail that persecuted him.
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Barr is on the record as saying "spying did occur". It will be interesting to find out the facts of his statement to Congress. I believe most Americans want to know the exact details of how this investigation began, what evidence was used to warrant "spying" on an opponent's political campaign and where the evidence came from. If nobody did anything wrong then there's no problem. If wrongdoing is found to have been committed by senior FBI officials, then the clean hands doctrine is out the window and the Mueller investigation would have been illegal from the start. Something to think about.

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Barr is on the record as saying "spying did occur". It will be interesting to find out the facts of his statement to Congress. I believe most Americans want to know the exact details of how this investigation began, what evidence was used to warrant "spying" on an opponent's political campaign and where the evidence came from. If nobody did anything wrong then there's no problem. If wrongdoing is found to have been committed by senior FBI officials, then the clean hands doctrine is out the window and the Mueller investigation would have been illegal from the start. Something to think about.

Chris B.
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1. I think you're use of the word "most" in this context is hyperbole. Most of American's are probably sick of hearing about it, and don't really care

2. If he had facts, then he should have ******* laid them out when he made the "accusation", which is what it was.

3. The Mueller investigation wouldn't have been illegal, and this weak ass attempt at even implying that it was is pathetic. There was plenty of other evidence aside from the FISA warrant. That was one piece of supporting evidence.
 
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
Barr is on the record as saying "spying did occur".
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Barr says a lot of things. Some of them might even be true.

ChrisBFRPKY said:
I believe most Americans want to know the exact details of how this investigation began, what evidence was used to warrant "spying" on an opponent's political campaign and where the evidence came from.
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I thought that was pretty well already understood. They were spying on Russian agents and Russian agents were talking to the Trump campaign.
 
Most Americans don't care one bit how the investigation started, since Trump has created so much smoke that looking for the fire is just the thing to do
This obsession with the initial trigger of the investigation is frankly bizarre.
 
Upchurch said:
I thought that was pretty well already understood. They were spying on Russian agents and Russian agents were talking to the Trump campaign.
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In fact it began because the British were carrying out surveillance and using phone and telecommunications intercepts to spy on Russian operatives, in things that were unrelated to anything to do with American politics, and they became suspicious when more and more Trump associates kept coming into the surveillance scope, and appearing in the communications intercepts.

I have no doubt whatsoever, that Trump knew what was happening in the lead up the the 2016 election, and he is happy for Russian interference to continue to happen because he knows it will be of benefit to his efforts to get re-elected. This is why his why his administration has gone to great lengths to neuter the US Government's ability to fight against this interference by getting rid of its top cyber policy adviser, and eliminating the policy position that aimed to help streamline the government's overall approach to cybersecurity.
 
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
Barr is on the record as saying "spying did occur". It will be interesting to find out the facts of his statement to Congress. I believe most Americans want to know the exact details of how this investigation began, what evidence was used to warrant "spying" on an opponent's political campaign and where the evidence came from. If nobody did anything wrong then there's no problem. If wrongdoing is found to have been committed by senior FBI officials, then the clean hands doctrine is out the window and the Mueller investigation would have been illegal from the start. Something to think about.

Chris B.
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No he did not. What he said was, "I think spying did occur". "Think"....that's a weasel word that could make his statement true even if he has no evidence spying occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFtSfl9uvtU

Some people think Bigfoot exists. That does not imply there is any good evidence for Bigfoot.
 
Cabbage said:
No he did not. What he said was, "I think spying did occur". "Think"....that's a weasel word that could make his statement true even if he has no evidence spying occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFtSfl9uvtU

Some people think Bigfoot exists. That does not imply there is any good evidence for Bigfoot.
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Besides which, if the FBI have reason to believe that US citizens are doing something illegal or are planning to do something illegal, they are entitled to investigate what those US citizens are doing, and part of that investigation can be "spying".... its called surveillance.

Also, if the CIA have reason to believe that people are doing something, or are planning to do something, that could harm or undermine the security of the United States, they too are entitled to investigate what those people are doing, and part of that investigation can also be "spying".... and it too is called surveillance.

In short, if the FBI or CIA were "spying" on the Trump campaign as part of a bona-fide investigation into wrongdoing, then that is legal and above board. Der Trumpenführer's toady, Bill Barr is just trying to make political capital for his Dear Leader.
 
plague311 said:
1. I think you're use of the word "most" in this context is hyperbole. Most of American's are probably sick of hearing about it, and don't really care

2. If he had facts, then he should have ******* laid them out when he made the "accusation", which is what it was.

3. The Mueller investigation wouldn't have been illegal, and this weak ass attempt at even implying that it was is pathetic. There was plenty of other evidence aside from the FISA warrant. That was one piece of supporting evidence.
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1. I want to know the exact details of who did what. You can bury your head in the sand if you choose.

2. The facts will be laid out. At the time of his testimony he cannot be expected to rule on these facts for an investigation that's just started.

3. Please do yourself a favor and read up on the "Clean Hands Doctrine". If anything improper was done by FBI officials the Government's hands would be dirty......and yes that means anything done after that point would be illegal.

Upchurch said:
Barr says a lot of things. Some of them might even be true.


I thought that was pretty well already understood. They were spying on Russian agents and Russian agents were talking to the Trump campaign.
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We'll see.

There's a lot that's yet to be reported to the general public. As I said, it will be interesting to learn the details.

The Great Zaganza said:
Most Americans don't care one bit how the investigation started, since Trump has created so much smoke that looking for the fire is just the thing to do
This obsession with the initial trigger of the investigation is frankly bizarre.
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Oh, you mean most Democrat Americans. Well then I suppose most Republican Americans do care how investigations begin because if they don't then Constitutional Rights are out the window and Big Brother can get away with anything he chooses to.
Cabbage said:
No he did not. What he said was, "I think spying did occur". "Think"....that's a weasel word that could make his statement true even if he has no evidence spying occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFtSfl9uvtU

Some people think Bigfoot exists. That does not imply there is any good evidence for Bigfoot.
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Remember me saying this part: "It will be interesting to find out the facts of his statement to Congress" That meant I want to see the facts responsible for Barr making that statement. I couldn't care less what anyone "thinks", I'm only interested in the facts.

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Remember me saying this part: "It will be interesting to find out the facts of his statement to Congress" That meant I want to see the facts responsible for Barr making that statement. I couldn't care less what anyone "thinks", I'm only interested in the facts.

Chris B.
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Nevertheless, you misrepresented Barr's statement.
 
Hey, let the Russians tell you about the Mueller report.
When the report by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III came out last week, offering the most authoritative account yet of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, YouTube recommended one video source hundreds of thousands of times to viewers seeking information, a watchdog says: RT, the global media operation funded by the Russian government.

AlgoTransparency, founded by former YouTube engineer Guillaume Chaslot, analyzed the recommendations made by the 1,000 YouTube channels it tracks daily. The group found that 236 of those collectively recommended RT’s “On Contact: Russiagate & Mueller Report w/ Aaron Mate” more than 400,000 times.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...t-watchdog-group-says/?utm_term=.4898bc8443d3
 
Cabbage said:
Nevertheless, you misrepresented Barr's statement.
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Now you're lying. Barr DID say "spying did occur" based on his view of the evidence he is looking into. And I did NOT quote him out of context NOR misrepresent what he said by not quoting his entire testimony. It's obvious Barr's statements have struck a chord with many including yourself.

Now back to the point. I will be interested to find out the facts that lead Barr to make these statements to Congress. Many may hope and pray he's simply lying, I guess we'll see when the time comes.

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Now you're lying. Barr DID say "spying did occur" based on his view of the evidence he is looking into. And I did NOT quote him out of context NOR misrepresent what he said by not quoting his entire testimony. It's obvious Barr's statements have struck a chord with many including yourself.

Now back to the point. I will be interested to find out the facts that lead Barr to make these statements to Congress. Many may hope and pray he's simply lying, I guess we'll see when the time comes.

Chris B.
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No. "I think spying did occur" The "I think" is a significant qualifier you omitted from your quote, which actually does change the context.

While your quote pretends it was presented as a fact; the qualifier demonstrates it was in reality merely an opinion.
 
More telling than "I think spying did occur" versus "Spying did occur" is Barr's use of the word "spying" to begin with.

Surveillance was established on Carter Page via legitimate channels (FISA court). Momentarily giving Barr the benefit of the doubt, he should have said something along the lines of "We need to investigate why the FISA court approved the surveillance ". Instead he used the hot-button word "spying", which isn't how the pros describe it. I assume that's because he was playing to his nutcase of a boss.
 
Here's a transcript of that section of testimony:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...te_genesis_of_trump-russia_investigation.html


"ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR: As I said in my confirmation hearing, I am going to be reviewing both the genesis and the conduct of intelligence activities directed at the Trump campaign during 2016. And a lot of this has already been investigated, and a substantial portion of it has been investigated and is being investigated by the office of the Inspector General, but one of the things I want to do is pull everything together from the various investigations that have gone on, including on the Hill and in the [Justice] Department, and see if there are any remaining questions to be addressed.





SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN: And can you share with us why you feel a need to do that?

BARR: Well, you know, for the same reason we're worried about foreign influence in elections, we want to make sure that during elections -- I think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. It's a big deal.

The generation I grew up in, which is the Vietnam War period, people were all concerned about spying on anti-war people and so forth by the government, and there were a lot of rules put in place to make sure that there's an adequate basis before our law enforcement agencies get involved in political surveillance. I'm not suggesting that those rules were violated but I think it's important to look at that. and I'm not talking about the FBI necessarily, but intelligence agencies more broadly.

SHAHEEN: So you're not suggesting, though, that spying occurred?

BARR: Well, I guess -- I think spying did occur, yes. I think spying did occur.

SHAHEEN: Well --

BARR: The question was whether it was adequately predicated. And I'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated. I need to explore that. I think it's my obligation. Congress is usually very concerned about intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies staying in their proper lane. I want to make sure that happened. We have a lot of rules about that.

I want to say that I've said I'm reviewing this. I haven't set up a team yet, but I have in mind having some colleagues help me pull all this information together and letting me know whether there are some areas that should be looked at. I also want to make clear. I also want to make clear, this is not launching an investigation of the FBI. Frankly, to the extent there were any issues at the FBI, I do not view it as a problem that's endemic to the FBI.

I think there was probably a failure among a group of leaders there, at the upper echelon. So I don't like to hear attacks about the FBI because I think the FBI is an outstanding organization and I think Chris Wray is a great partner for me. I'm very pleased he's there as the director. If it becomes necessary to look over some former officials' activities, I expect I'll be relying heavily on Chris and work closely with him in looking at that information. But that's what I'm doing. I feel I have an obligation to make sure that government power is not abused. I think that's one of the principal roles of the attorney general."

It also looks like the IG is and has been investigating these accusations of spying on a political campaign for quite some time. This is a big deal. The IG is not investigating Barr's thoughts or feelings.

Chris B.
 
Cabbage said:
No. "I think spying did occur" The "I think" is a significant qualifier you omitted from your quote, which actually does change the context.

While your quote pretends it was presented as a fact; the qualifier demonstrates it was in reality merely an opinion.
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Not only the qualifier, but also just who was being spied on. There is no evidence anyone set out to spy on the Trump campaign the way Trump is claiming.


ETA: And what Varwoche said.
 
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Chris, if someone robbed your house and you reported it to the police, you would want them to investigate you before they even start looking for the culprit?
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Now you're lying. Barr DID say "spying did occur" based on his view of the evidence he is looking into. And I did NOT quote him out of context NOR misrepresent what he said by not quoting his entire testimony. It's obvious Barr's statements have struck a chord with many including yourself.

Now back to the point. I will be interested to find out the facts that lead Barr to make these statements to Congress. Many may hope and pray he's simply lying, I guess we'll see when the time comes.

Chris B.
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smartcooky said:
So you quote a passage to prove you were right, and it proves you were wrong.

Nuff said
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Perhaps you missed it, so there it is again for you to not only read but to comprehend.

Chris B.
 
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