Mueller Investigation pt5

[Ziggurat]

It's a conundrum. If it doesn't end in catastrophe, how will we learn the valuable life lesson that it was catastrophic?

Certainly Bill Clinton's impeachment taught the country what a catastrophe his presidency was, right?

... right?

 

[Minoosh]

Yep.
But I think it's useful to ask Trump supporters if they think Trump will seek a Pardon for Mueller's Obstruction charges, given that he claims to have been completely exonorated.

Except there weren't any Mueller obstruction charges, and generally it's not useful to ask a Trump supporter anything.

 

[dasmiller]

It's a conundrum. If it doesn't end in catastrophe, how will we learn the valuable life lesson that it was catastrophic?

I think the catastrophe is already in progress (for one thing, I'm a deficit hawk).

Certainly Bill Clinton's impeachment taught the country what a catastrophe his presidency was, right?

... right?

Impeachment does not necessarily imply a catastrophic presidency, nor does a lack of impeachment imply that a presidency was a success.

I think there should be more limits on the president's powers, and I think people need to be more wary of blustering iconoclastic truth-challenged demagogues (on both sides). If, as I suggested earlier, Trump is remembered as just another 1-term president like Carter or Bush-the-First, then we haven't done anything to resist the bluster of the next iconoclastic truth-challenged demagogue.

 

[Ziggurat]

Impeachment does not necessarily imply a catastrophic presidency

Obviously. Which is why impeaching Trump won't teach people what you want them to learn.

I think there should be more limits on the president's powers

I've been saying that since before Trump was elected. People didn't seem particularly interested in hearing that message when they thought Hillary would win.

 

[Minoosh]

I think there should be more limits on the president's powers, and I think people need to be more wary of blustering iconoclastic truth-challenged demagogues (on both sides). If, as I suggested earlier, Trump is remembered as just another 1-term president like Carter or Bush-the-First, then we haven't done anything to resist the bluster of the next iconoclastic truth-challenged demagogue.

I hope we will have at least wised up to the dark side of social media. Actually, all media, MSM included.

 

[dasmiller]

Obviously. Which is why impeaching Trump won't teach people what you want them to learn.

It is not about the impeachment so much as it is about getting away from business-as-usual for a bit. If a lot of the key Republicans were to admit that nominating Trump was a mistake (the Democrats are already onboard with that), if the acres of misbehavior of the administration were laid bare rather than being buried in legalese and dribbled out over years, perhaps some lessons would be taken to heart. But if it's just two sides accusing each other of being dishonest and political, then I fear that the country's current divide and truth-optional attitude will become the new normal.

FWIW, I think Trump's presidency is more a symptom than a cause. Until 2016, I'd have thought that the Democrats were more susceptible to that type of fact-lite demagoguery. I'm much more interested in treating the underlying problems than I am with Trump himself.

I've been saying that since before Trump was elected. People didn't seem particularly interested in hearing that message when they thought Hillary would win.

Hillary? Really?

Thread continues here

Posted By: kmortis