Mueller Investigation pt5

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smartcooky said:
They need to make sure they target those swing voters in the key states that won him the Presidency in 2016 despite the fact that he lost the popular vote to Clinton. Make them angry about what Trump has done to America;
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If they're not already angry, I'm not sure how anyone could "make them" angry.

So should Mueller have pursued a subpoena to get Trump's sworn testimony?
 
You can use the cursor to highlight and copy text:
In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion." In so doing, the Office recognized that the word "collud[ e ]" was used in communications with the Acting Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation's scope and that the term has frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office's focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.
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It works very well. Often when you copy PDF text and then paste it, the text requires a lot of formatting. This one doesn't.

Give CNN credit. This report needs to be available and people NEED to be able to copy-and-paste text from the actual text in the report to counter the spin (and outright lies) the Trump supporters will (and have already) tried to put on it. Government documents are seldom copyright protected. "We the people..." etc.
 
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Minoosh said:
If they're not already angry, I'm not sure how anyone could "make them" angry.

So should Mueller have pursued a subpoena to get Trump's sworn testimony?
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From one of the accounts I read (or a post here) Trump just answered, "I don't recall" on his written questions. Mueller said it was inadequate. But surely Trump would have just said, "I don't recall" were he to appear in person.
 
I see the problem, I tried to copy paste before it was downloaded far enough. I have tried again on the CNN link and it works. Thanks
 
Minoosh said:
What he could only get from Trump was Trump under oath.
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If Trump cannot give Mueller anything he can't get elsewhere, then the only point of that is to try to get him for perjury. Why should Trump agree to that?
 
Ziggurat said:
If Trump cannot give Mueller anything he can't get elsewhere, then the only point of that is to try to get him for perjury. Why should Trump agree to that?
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Cabbage said:
I'm not sure that he ever expressed that....and why would he? You're the only one I've heard claiming that as a necessity. If it's not a necessity there's no reason to expect such a statement.

Nevertheless, I'm at a loss as to why "Suspicion of Conspiracy" and Trump's personal involvement with/knowledge of such events as the Trump Tower meeting. wouldn't be a sufficient response from Mueller. Why do you think that wouldn't be sufficient?
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Ziggurat said:
If Trump cannot give Mueller anything he can't get elsewhere, then the only point of that is to try to get him for perjury. Why should Trump agree to that?
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Why do you think that Mueller was "trying to get" Trump for anything? I'd say his report indicated otherwise.
 
Ziggurat said:
If Trump cannot give Mueller anything he can't get elsewhere, then the only point of that is to try to get him for perjury. Why should Trump agree to that?
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Because he wants to assert he is fully cooperating.

I think we are both in agreement to never talk to police. But I'm not going to lie and say I'm cooperating by doing that.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Because he wants to assert he is fully cooperating.

I think we are both in agreement to never talk to police. But I'm not going to lie and say I'm cooperating by doing that.
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Trump did cooperate on everything except an interview. He didn't claim executive privilege on a single document request, for example.
 
Ziggurat said:
Trump did cooperate on everything except an interview. He didn't claim executive privilege on a single document request, for example.
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Apparently there is a version of this where he ordered all kinds of obstruction but his handlers didn't carry out his orders.

I imagine he's easy to distract with shiny objects and all.
 
Stacyhs said:
You'll be hearing "NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION, TOTALLY EXONERATED!" from Trump through the next election.
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Oh, I think we'll be hearing that from him the rest of his life.

Skeptic Ginger said:
From one of the accounts I read (or a post here) Trump just answered, "I don't recall" on his written questions. Mueller said it was inadequate. But surely Trump would have just said, "I don't recall" were he to appear in person.
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But he wouldn't be able to confine himself to those words. He would have to brag about something just to show up those damn investigators.
 
Trump cooperated? From the report:
President Trump reacted negatively to the Special Counsel's appointment. He told advisors that it was the end of his presidency, sought to have Attorney General Jefferson (Jeff) Sessions unrecuse from the Russia investigation and to have the Special Counsel removed, and engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses. Those and related actions are described and analyzed in Volume II of the report. p16
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That doesn't really sound too cooperative.
According to notes written by Hunt, when Sessions told the President that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I' m ******." p290
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The spinmeisters have a big job ahead. This is only Vol I!
 
Ziggurat said:
If Trump cannot give Mueller anything he can't get elsewhere, then the only point of that is to try to get him for perjury. Why should Trump agree to that?
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Looks like you don't know a lot about police interviews.

Another point of getting Trump in an interview would be so that Mueller could read his body language; make him uncomfortable with difficult questions and watch his reactions as well as hear his answers.

Yes, Mueller might well have been able to get the same information from other sources, but he could not get Trump's physical and emotional reactions from those other sources, and he would not have the opportunity to ask follow-up questions based on Trump's answers, and possibly taking the interview in an unexpected direction.
 
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alfaniner said:
Oh, I think we'll be hearing that from him the rest of his life.

But he wouldn't be able to confine himself to those words. He would have to brag about something just to show up those damn investigators.
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You know, this is a good point. Those written answers were controlled and monitored. In person he's easy to lead.

But there is a video of him in a deposition about financial fraud and he's quite cool in his answers. Perhaps he's better at lying while committing fraud, but he loses control when he's bragging about his accomplishments and self-worth.
 
newyorkguy said:
Trump cooperated? From the report:

That doesn't really sound too cooperative.

According to notes written by Hunt, when Sessions told the President that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I' m ******." p290
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The spinmeisters have a big job ahead. This is only Vol I!
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If there was no collusion, why did Trump think it was the end and that he was effed? Could it be possible that Trump wasn't so much worried about Mueller finding a conspiracy of co-operation between his campaign team and the Russian government, but that he might uncover damning evidence of some of his other previous crimes in NYC.
 
smartcooky said:
Looks like you don't know a lot about police interviews...
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^ With written questions there's no followup.

  • Trump: I don't recall.
  • Counsel: You have no recollection whatsoever, sir?
  • Trump: No.
  • Counsel: Sir, allow me to walk you through what is alleged to have taken place.
  • Blah-blah-blahdie-dah
Trump is the kind of witness cops love to question. A guy who can't shut up. Push the right buttons and he would have hung himself ten times over. And his lawyers knew it. At first Trump said he WOULD appear. His counsel talked him out of that in a hurry.
 
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