Mueller Investigation pt5

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Beelzebuddy said:
Mueller really, really didn't want to indict Trump without going through congress, is the only explanation I have that fits.

I'm still following Abramson, who's still hip deep in the collusion section. Teal dear: it's all true. All of it. The Tower-for-sanctions quid pro quo, the pee tape, it's all 100% true. The narrow definition of conspiracy has to be because anything broader would have necessitated charges because otherwise... it's all there.
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It is

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/apr/18/muellers-roadmap-impeachment/

In his 448-page report, released Thursday, Mr. Mueller concluded Mr. Trump did not conspire with Russia to try to subvert the 2016 election — but the special counsel said the steps the president took to try to undermine the investigation into that baseless claim could seem fishy, depending on one’s perspective.

Those moves, including dangling pardons and trying to fire Mr. Mueller himself, never actually came to fruition — but Mr. Mueller says that was more through the stoic efforts of the president’s aides to thwart him, than because of restraint on Mr. Trump’s part.

“The president’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the president declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests,” Mr. Mueller concluded.

Mr. Mueller did not recommend prosecuting Mr. Trump and offered a number of explanations for that.

One reason is that the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has a longstanding policy against charging a sitting president, even in a sealed indictment. But Mr. Mueller also said he didn’t want to foreclose Congress’s ability to impeach the president, should lawmakers pursue that option.​
 
Mueller's report spells it out loud and clear that there was (at the very least), a conspiracy to obstruct justice by Trump and his minions. And Mueller made the decision to pass that particular baton over to congress to handle.

So my question(s):

What are the steps now for congress to move forward with this?
Will they move forward with this?
Should they move forward with this?
 
Stacyhs said:
And yet..and yet...no evidence of this by Dems was found. What was found was that there was actual voting fraud going on by...wait for it.. a Republican hired by the campaign of GOP Senate candidate Mark Harris in NC.:blush:
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I can't resist posting this...

HarrisNCFraud.jpg


...the face of a crooked Republican politician who has been caught in voter fraud, at the moment his own son testified against him.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the German people for creating the word "schadenfreude" :thumbsup::D
 
Here is a direct quote from the report detailing Mueller's opinion on obstruction, and who should be prosecuting it:

Mueller report p.220 said:
Finally, we concluded that in the rare case in
which a criminal investigation of the President ' s conduct is justified, inquiries to determine
whether the President acted for a corrupt motive should not impermissibly chill his performance
of his constitutionally assigned duties . The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction
laws to the President ' s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional
system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law .
CONCLUSION

Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment , we did not draw
ultimate conclusions about the President ' s conduct. The evidence we obtained about the
President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were
making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a
thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice,
we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach
that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a
crime, it also does not exonerate him.
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Seems clear that the evidence did not exonerate Trump and Mueller concluded it is only Congress who should be bringing the charges as that is the legal mechanism in place for bringing charges against a sitting President.
 
AnonyMoose said:
Mueller's report spells it out loud and clear that there was (at the very least), a conspiracy to obstruct justice by Trump and his minions. And Mueller made the decision to pass that particular baton over to congress to handle.

So my question(s):

What are the steps now for congress to move forward with this?
Will they move forward with this?
Should they move forward with this?
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https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-n...ort-public/h_9c4caf0f146c13f1511fdfc2116c55dd
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, a Democrat from Maryland, told CNN there is nothing he has seen so far in special counsel Robert Mueller's report that would change the House leadership strategy to avoid impeachment proceedings.

“Based on what we have seen to date, going forward on impeachment is not worthwhile at this point. Very frankly, there is an election in 18 months and the American people will make a judgement,” Hoyer said.
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Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be the political will and fortitude to impeach this POS. Maybe that is wise politically. Maybe. He clearly deserves to be impeached. 18 months cannot come soon enough.
 
Cabbage said:
This is not merely a matter of omission from the report, as you wish to characterize it; it conflicts with what the report actually says.
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The matter is untested by the courts. And when challenged by Trump's lawyers to provide either an explanation of a suspected crime or any description of what information Mueller wanted that couldn't be obtained by other means, Mueller never provided either. That Mueller chooses to characterize it differently doesn't mean I'm wrong.
 
portlandatheist said:
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-n...ort-public/h_9c4caf0f146c13f1511fdfc2116c55dd


Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be the political will and fortitude to impeach this POS. Maybe that is wise politically. Maybe. He clearly deserves to be impeached. 18 months cannot come soon enough.
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Dems are playing the long game, because impeaching Trump at this stage is a lose-lose situation

If they try to impeach Trump, and fail at the Senate it will be devastating for them at the 2020 election.

If they try to impeach him and succeed, Pence becomes President, and his first act will be to pardon Trump.

What the Dems should do is to use all the damning talking points from this report during the 2020 campaign.... remind the voters about Trump's character...

- remind them that Trump is a crook (a tax and insurance fraudster)
- remind them that Trump considers himself to be above the Law
- remind them that Trump did actually attempt to obstruct justice
- remind them that Trump knowingly benefited from a foreign country directly influencing the 2016 election

and in addition to this...

- remind them that Trump turned a blind eye when an American journalist was murdered by one of Trump's business associates
- remind them that Trump is trying to scrap universal healthcare
- remind them that Trump is trying to scrap medical insurance for people with pre-existing conditions
- remind them that it is Trump's policy to tear children and babies from the arms of their parents.
- remind them that over 500 of these children and parents haven't seen each other for two years because they are lost in the system - no-one knows where they are.
- remind them that Trump's declaration of a national Emergency to build his vanity monument is an attempt to subvert the House's Constitutional power of the purse.


They need to make sure they target those swing voters in the key states that won him the Presidency in 2016 despite the fact that he lost the popular vote to Clinton. Make them angry about what Trump has done to America; about how he has diminished the respect and esteem for America that the world once had, that he has turned the United States into a global pariah and laughing stock. Play on their emotions regarding the child separation policy.

If they are able to hold the House, flip the Senate and win the presidency, there could yet be chance we could see Trump in shackles and an orange jump suit.
 
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Giz said:
It's true that a major issue is that:



-Russia has tried to weaken our democracy and spread division and distrust



The other issue is:



-The democratic party has multiplied the effectiveness of Putin’s low impact meddling a thousand fold by screaming collusion, illegitimate and treason without proof.



Is there any chance of introspection? Democrats realizing that they have being acting as Putin’s useful idiots?
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:dl: :dl: :dl:

That rates three dogs. It's all the fault of the Dems.
 
Wolrab said:
Isn't it the job of every country to screw with others in order to benefit them selves? It looks like some people think this hasn't gone on since the dawn of time.
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That wasn't the point. The point is, why on Earth does the GOP support this lying nut-job as POTUS? I mean seriously.
 
Ziggurat said:
The matter is untested by the courts. And when challenged by Trump's lawyers to provide either an explanation of a suspected crime or any description of what information Mueller wanted that couldn't be obtained by other means, Mueller never provided either. That Mueller chooses to characterize it differently doesn't mean I'm wrong.
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And I still see no evidence to indicate you are right. I'll take Mueller's word over yours.
 
Trump Tweets

“Donald Trump was being framed, he fought back. That is not Obstruction.” @JesseBWatters

I had the right to end the whole Witch Hunt if I wanted. I could have fired everyone, including Mueller, if I wanted. I chose not to. I had the RIGHT to use Executive Privilege. I didn’t!
 
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I didn't listen to the Barr conference this morning but the pertinent clips are coming out. Barr essentially apologized for Trump saying the poor guy was under this awful stress because of an unprecedented attack. Poor widdle Trumpy lashed out with the obstruction, he didn't really mean to obstruct justice.

Bottom line: Barr lied in his report and his conference this morning.
 
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