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Notre-Dame de Paris - cathedral on fire!

Your monument of Western Civilization is a front for a child molestation criminal conspiracy.
I'm sorry if I seem really out of my element, as I pretty much only know Christianity and Catholicism through movies and tv, but I have to ask: Was child molestation ever a major tenant of those religions? If not, then is it not possible to seperate the art from the artist, so to speak?
 
I'm sorry if I seem really out of my element, as I pretty much only know Christianity and Catholicism through movies and tv, but I have to ask: Was child molestation ever a major tenant of those religions? If not, then is it not possible to seperate the art from the artist, so to speak?

Well, there is one of your major problems right there..........

Dependins on movies and tv as your source of information on ANYTHING is a guarantee you are going to be ignorant on the subject.
 
No.



Yeah let's just take pictures of everything, burn all of it down, and put solar panels instead.

And this some people here are why I don't like the "New Atheism" very much despite my own intense skepticism about religion in general:they are often as dogmatic and intolerant as the "relgiounist" they hate so much.

Is anyone actually saying, “Let it burn!” though?

The only thing I have seen is people saying they place human lives above that of buildings and others saying that in this case the building is worth more than X number of human lives.

It’s definitely not dogmatic for someone to consider, say, the Grenfell fire, above the Notre Dame fire or the Windsor Castle fire in terms of tragedy.
 
Oh for no gods' sake, we can like humans AND cathedrals. Unless they plan to rebuild Notre Dame out of human skulls we don't have to chose between them. Although a cathedral built of skulls would be frickin metal.

I was really looking for you to have the opposite suggestion, more of a Cersei at the Great Sept of Baelor Approach: we can burn humans and cathedrals.
 
Is anyone actually saying, “Let it burn!” though?

The only thing I have seen is people saying they place human lives above that of buildings and others saying that in this case the building is worth more than X number of human lives.

It’s definitely not dogmatic for someone to consider, say, the Grenfell fire, above the Notre Dame fire or the Windsor Castle fire in terms of tragedy.

I'm pretty close to"let it burn" on any Catholic facility.
 
I don't know how it started, but all I can think is, what was the reaction of the person who started/discovered it.

How do you say "Oh ******" in French?

"C'est la *****" is the first guess.

ETA. Oops. It knows. Well, it's the well-known French for excrement.
 
From the pictures I saw today, it doesn't look nearly as bad as I feared. Needs a new roof, of course. Will that really cost hundreds of millions of euros? I suppose it depends on how it's done.


I read that in the original construction, somewhere around 13,000 300 year old trees were used. That certainly isn't happening today. Even if you could find that many old trees, if you tried to cut them down in order to put a roof on a church the protests would be louder than the bells of Notre Dame. And that much lead would violate every environmental regulation on the books. Will they use modern (fireproof) materials, but attempt to make it look exactly like it was? Or will they opt for some modernizations?
 
Making it from oak is a non-starter, the trees simply don't exist. They'll need to either make it from modern materials and disguise them, or bite the bullet and do something up-front modern. At the moment I think I'd favor the latter. It'll probably take a year to even figure out what approach they want to take.
 
I just googled a story I had heard about, in which at the time a great hall in one of the East coast universities of America had been built using oak beams, but when they had to be replaced, no one would allow them to cut the trees to replace them. They would have to use something else. One of the members of the botany department got wind of the plan, and showed up with some old documents that said that the trees in a grove near campus were planted specifically at the time the building was built, for the purpose of having replacements when they were needed in 150 years.


It turns out that the actual story had been about Oxford, and it was 500 years instead of 150, and, as it turns out, it was a fake story anyway. It had never happened.


But wouldn't this be an awesome opportunity to start such a thing. The French government should set aside some land for an old growth forest nature preserve, with the provision that, 100 or more years from now, people could cut the trees if necessary to restore historical buildings, especially Notre-Dame cathedral. Call it the Notre Dame Nature Preserve. (Uhhhh…..except in French)


Well, I think it would be a cool idea, anyway. Can somebody call Macron and let him know about it? He can use the idea for free, but he has to provide the land for about 50,000 old oak trees. (You have to have spares so that when some of them are harvested in 2319, the ecosystem isn't destroyed.)
 
I'm sorry if I seem really out of my element, as I pretty much only know Christianity and Catholicism through movies and tv, but I have to ask: Was child molestation ever a major tenant of those religions? If not, then is it not possible to seperate the art from the artist, so to speak?

Abusing children and vulnerable people is just one of many ways the darkness in the heart of Christians expresses itself.
 
I just googled a story I had heard about, in which at the time a great hall in one of the East coast universities of America had been built using oak beams, but when they had to be replaced, no one would allow them to cut the trees to replace them. They would have to use something else. One of the members of the botany department got wind of the plan, and showed up with some old documents that said that the trees in a grove near campus were planted specifically at the time the building was built, for the purpose of having replacements when they were needed in 150 years.


It turns out that the actual story had been about Oxford, and it was 500 years instead of 150, and, as it turns out, it was a fake story anyway. It had never happened.


But wouldn't this be an awesome opportunity to start such a thing. The French government should set aside some land for an old growth forest nature preserve, with the provision that, 100 or more years from now, people could cut the trees if necessary to restore historical buildings, especially Notre-Dame cathedral. Call it the Notre Dame Nature Preserve. (Uhhhh…..except in French)


Well, I think it would be a cool idea, anyway. Can somebody call Macron and let him know about it? He can use the idea for free, but he has to provide the land for about 50,000 old oak trees. (You have to have spares so that when some of them are harvested in 2319, the ecosystem isn't destroyed.)

Sounds like a major opportunity cost to me.

Just rebuild it out of durable materials.
 
As an aside, I was giving evidence at a public inquiry last year (well, two actually...but that's another story) and in both cases the "Ship of Theseus" issue arose. Here it is sometimes referred to as "George Washington's Axe" or, for those Brits of a certain age, "Trigger's Broom". It's a fair point, and one oft discussed in heritage circles. At what point does the artefect being repaired actually cease to be the original article? This is one of the reasons there is a presumption of minimal intervention.


There is a good quotye from Sir Bernard Fielding, the great engineer responsible for York Minster repairs (amonst other things), to the effect that all buildings fall down eventually - all we are doing is prolonging their life as sympathetically as possible, for as long as practicable.

There is a railway locomotive called Green Arrow. It used to be in running condition but has developed a crack in it's cylinder block and it has excessive corrosion in the firebox crown.
In the normal course of things if the loco belonged to a 'heritage' liny they would be replaced or re-fabricated.
As part of the National Collection and being all original and 'as built' in the 1930s it has been decided not restore it.
This has caused a lot of controversy.
 
We may continue to debate but France has acted.

Donated money by the bucket full and labor has already begun.
The cathedral will be rebuilt and probably fairly quickly.

Just as Mexico is rebuilding all its historical sites as quickly as money allows.
 

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