Mueller Investigation pt5

[Aber]

Do you believe that Mueller found evidence that "members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government" and choose to cover it up? Why would he do that? Do you really believe that Mueller's hand picked "I'm with Her" lawyers wouldn't leak that if he attempted to do so for whatever reason?

What do you think that 'establish' is doing in the middle of the sentence?

It's a measure of the level of proof, but its meaning is unclear. Does it mean 'establish beyond a reasonable doubt' ie criminal level of proof? Does it mean 'establish on preponderance of the evidence' ie civil case level of proof?

What it does not mean is NO evidence of conspiracy or collusion, which is what you claimed.

We don't know what Mueller has said in the report, we only have carefully selected quotes from Barr. The Mueller team has not leaked anything to date and I'm not expecting them to.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I wish the AG would go ahead and send the full report over to the White House so we could all finally read it.

 

[Cabbage]

CNN




Do you believe that Mueller found evidence that "members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government" and choose to cover it up? Why would he do that? Do you really believe that Mueller's hand picked "I'm with Her" lawyers wouldn't leak that if he attempted to do so for whatever reason?

No. Unlike the Leaky Faucet Trump administration, Mueller runs a pretty tight ship. And I find it fascinating that, despite facts like that, people like you choose to throw your apologist weight behind Trump. You don't like leaks? Well, I've never seen so many leaks in any other administration. Gee, do you think Trump might have something to do with that????

The willful blindness is off the chain crazy.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't think trying to sit on this report - if that's what happens - is really going to work out well for the Trump administration.

It is so far as they are all out there pounding away at their talking points and the Democrats are, as usual, not pounding back.

It's Obama's fault
It was all false accusations
They all owe Trump an apology
And so on​

The reply I'm not hearing:

Why did everyone lie about Russian contacts
Why did Trump lie about the Trump Tower Moscow deal
The Trump Tower meeting was not about adoptions
Why did Trump write a dishonest reply for Jr to use
And so on​

The Democrats need to step it up and stop letting Trumpers walk all over them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

CNN

Do you believe that Mueller found evidence that "members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government" and choose to cover it up? Why would he do that? Do you really believe that Mueller's hand picked "I'm with Her" lawyers wouldn't leak that if he attempted to do so for whatever reason?

You are having a hard time with this aren't you. We don't have the Mueller report, we have Trump's appointed ally telling everyone there's nothing to see in the report.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

You're thinking of Agent Smith, there.

A Venn diagram of Trump and anything cool has zero overlap.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

“So Democrats want the complete Muller report. I'm going to object until we get a complete report of all the Obama era officials that got this thing started."

Trump, from the Hannity interview.

 

[Belz...]

A Venn diagram of Trump and anything cool has zero overlap.

The Matrix Reloaded is not cool.

 

[Segnosaur]

“So Democrats want the complete Muller report. I'm going to object until we get a complete report of all the Obama era officials that got this thing started."
Trump, from the Hannity interview.

So looks like Trump wants to bury the report.

You have to wonder why, if it "completely exonerates him".

Could it be that he has seen the report (or more likely had someone tell him "this is actually bad for you") and knows that releasing it will be damaging?

 

[Bubba]

At least 99.9% of us international skeptics knew all along there was no 'collusion' with Russia. Its not only because we are really smart skeptics. It is also that we already knew the media promoting the claim were (still are) the PR wing of the failing liberal establishment/democrat party.

One silver lining of the debacle is that other people are waking up to we what we knew all along about those so called journalists, although some may never accept reality.

Nonetheless we mustn't become complacent. Be ready for the next load of BS coming from that PR wing of the failing liberal establishment/democrat party, the failed liberal media.

International skeptics are the best !!! We rock !

 

[Delphic Oracle]

At least 99.9% of us international skeptics knew all along there was no 'collusion' with Russia. Its not only because we are really smart skeptics. It is also that we already knew the media promoting the claim were (still are) the PR wing of the failing liberal establishment/democrat party.

One silver lining of the debacle is that other people are waking up to we what we knew all along about those so called journalists, although some may never accept reality.

Nonetheless we mustn't become complacent. Be ready for the next load of BS coming from that PR wing of the failing liberal establishment/democrat party, the failed liberal media.

International skeptics are the best !!! We rock !

"There's some questions worth asking here" =/= "There was no collusion-in-scare-quotes"

 

[Childlike Empress]

“So Democrats want the complete Muller report. I'm going to object until we get a complete report of all the Obama era officials that got this thing started."

Trump, from the Hannity interview.

The Russia CTists handed him a terrible weapon. It's a boomerang as I mentioned in passing around a year ago or when I lost interest in this BS "debate". It will continue to hurt until they get it and start to care about actual politics that are popular with ordinary people and could beat him. Which likely won't occure until it is too late.

 

[johnny karate]

"There's some questions worth asking here" =/= "There was no collusion-in-scare-quotes"

I don't think I'll ever get tired of laughing at conspiracy theorists accusing other people of being conspiracy theorists.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The Matrix Reloaded is not cool.

That Agent Smith?

I thought he meant Stan!

 

[Andy_Ross]

At least 99.9% of us international skeptics knew all along there was no 'collusion' with Russia. Its not only because we are really smart skeptics. It is also that we already knew the media promoting the claim were (still are) the PR wing of the failing liberal establishment/democrat party.

One silver lining of the debacle is that other people are waking up to we what we knew all along about those so called journalists, although some may never accept reality.

Nonetheless we mustn't become complacent. Be ready for the next load of BS coming from that PR wing of the failing liberal establishment/democrat party, the failed liberal media.

International skeptics are the best !!! We rock !

Funny guy.

 

[Minoosh]

It is so far as they are all out there pounding away at their talking points and the Democrats are, as usual, not pounding back.

It's Obama's fault
It was all false accusations
They all owe Trump an apology
And so on​

The reply I'm not hearing:

Why did everyone lie about Russian contacts
Why did Trump lie about the Trump Tower Moscow deal
The Trump Tower meeting was not about adoptions
Why did Trump write a dishonest reply for Jr to use
And so on​

The Democrats need to step it up and stop letting Trumpers walk all over them.

This is a legitimate point and maybe they should be saying those things, but where do you go with those questions? Is raising them going to be particularly damaging? Probably not, because those questions have been out there a long time. People interested in connecting those dots connected them a long time ago. There's an overriding "why" IMO - why is Trump talking about burying the report? Withholding its findings not just from the American public, but from Congress?

Republican senators might have a good reason for not playing along with such a White House attempt. They stand to be completely blindsided by what the damn thing actually says. In principle, they might be willing to go along with a coverup, but wouldn't they want to know the dimensions of what's being covered up, if only to assess the political damage they may be exposing themselves to?

I doubt if the pounding away of Trump talking points is going to win Trump any new converts. Meanwhile, though I don't necessarily trust Lindsey Graham to do the right thing, I do trust that he has an instinct for self-preservation. So there's that.

 

[Segnosaur]

At least 99.9% of us international skeptics knew all along there was no 'collusion' with Russia.

We knew no such thing.

There was substantial evidence that such collusion existed. We know that Russia worked to interfere in the election. We know there were multiple points of contact between the Trump campaign and Russian assets. Occam's razor would suggest that with publicly available evidence pointing to collusion, then it was likely that collusion actually existed.

We do not know what is in the Muller report; for all we know, the very first words are "Trump personally worked with the Russians to rig the elections in his favor". On the other hand, it may state that the Russians worked independently, and the Trump campaign was just filled with buffoons and patsies.

I would hope that eventually, 2 things would happen:
- The complete mueller report gets released, so we can find out whether Trump truly is in the clear, or whether its a case of "Collusion probably happened, but we won't bring charges for reasons"

- If the report concludes that Trump and his administration didn't collude, then hopefully it will explain why so much evidence suggests Trump's guilt

 

[Bob001]

We knew no such thing.

There was substantial evidence that such collusion existed. We know that Russia worked to interfere in the election. We know there were multiple points of contact between the Trump campaign and Russian assets. Occam's razor would suggest that with publicly available evidence pointing to collusion, then it was likely that collusion actually existed.
....

Let's note again that "collusion" is a mushy word. It could mean conspiracy, coordination, cooperation or something else. Mueller was tasked with determining whether a crime had occurred, and he apparently has concluded there is not sufficient evidence to prove a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt. But we do know as a matter of fact that Trump pursued his business interests in Russia for many years and even through much of his campaign and he believed that Putin would help him, and we know as a matter of fact that Putin wanted Trump to be President in hopes of relief from sanctions and in fear of Hillary Clinton. They didn't have to meet and say "I'll give you this if you give that" (although we may never know what Trump and Putin actually said in their private meetings).

Each of them served the other's interests while promoting their own.

And we're supposed to be happy and content to find out that no provable crimes were committed?

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

"Baskets made by the Russians." What does that even mean? Someone posted an opinion on the Internet somewhere, and it cost Hillary the election? Why not just say that, instead of this tortured and tortuous sports metaphor?

Why not, indeed? Aside from the fact that it is meant to ridicule and dismiss.

How about, 'Tens ... perhaps hundreds ... of propagandists paid by hostile foreign interests released thousands ... if not tens of thousands ... of carefully crafted, coordinated, and disguised posts on the Internet with the express purpose of disrupting the election in a way which harmed Clinton's chances of winning.'?

That would be far closer to the reality of what happened than your version.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Until any of it is released, let's call it the Barr Report.