Mueller Investigation pt5

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I understand people want to see the report. Prosecutors are given the the power of the state to use the threat of violence to upend people's lives and dig into them beyond anything a private person could accomplish. They must then charge someone and present the evidence in charges and at trial, or drop the investigation.

This is asking a prosecutor to release all the stuff they found against people they didn't charge. That has tinges of a police state. It is using their powers for a role it wasnt meant to do.
 
It's almost as if Congress thinks it has the duty and authority to have oversight over the executive, and act as a check and balance.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I understand people want to see the report. Prosecutors are given the the power of the state to use the threat of violence to upend people's lives and dig into them beyond anything a private person could accomplish. They must then charge someone and present the evidence in charges and at trial, or drop the investigation.

This is asking a prosecutor to release all the stuff they found against people they didn't charge. That has tinges of a police state. It is using their powers for a role it wasnt meant to do.
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Innocent people be damned! Orange Hitler has to go.
 
uke2se said:
Wait? The Report is done and now the GOP don't want it released? Must be pretty damning of Trump.
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You really need to read this, study it and understand it.

thaiboxerken said:
They just don't want to further embarrass "Liberals" (everyone that isn't a Trump loyalist) with a report that completely exonerates Trump, his family, Manafort, Flynn and the rest................
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You too.


The Great Zaganza said:
See! Trump is too stupid to collude! He can't even obstruct effectively enough to be a crime.
Let's re-elect the loser in 2020!
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You as well.

WilliamSeger said:
No, there is no such Hillary Rule, although I can understand how you got that impression.

This is more like, we may need an investigation to find out what's actually in the Mueller report.
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And you.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
The more I think about it, the more it looks like Mueller believed that Congress, not Barr, should resolve the obstruction of justice Question&Barr inserted himself in.

If Mueller Report said “I’m leaving this to AG,” wouldn’t Barr have quoted that yest?
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That may well be what Mueller is thinking, but it doesn't mean Barr is wrong to have inserted himself AND Rosenstein to answer the obstruction question (it wasn't only Barr). Both Barr and Rosenstein have more experience and expertise with the legal question of what constitutes obstruction than Congress does.
 
grandmastershek said:
It's almost as if Congress thinks it has the duty and authority to have oversight over the executive, and act as a check and balance.
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No the problem is Congress absolutely does not think that at the moment. Congress is acting like the President's cabinet slash PR department.

The slim Democratic Majority in the less powerful of the two Congressional Houses might still have a desire to serve as a check on the President, Congress as a whole absolutely does not.
 
Trump does not talk or act like a president. Trump talks and acts like an organized crime boss. And now he is talking and acting like a crime boss who has skated. He's already publicly thirsting for revenge, darkly hinting about unnamed people who "know who they are", who will be "looked at".

I would have been surprised if Mueller had found smoking gun evidence of coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia. There was coordination. We witnessed at least some of the coordination. But the coordination wasn't discussed and planned . It was implicit. Putin and Trump were after the same thing - to disinform and puppetize the electorate. They didn't need to talk about it. They just did it. They did it in a coordinated manner. That was easy. Didn't require discussion and planning.

But Trump did slip up a couple of times. He publicly begged Russia to get him dirt on Clinton. Putin must have face-palmed at that blunder. Trump also committed face-palm error when he high-fived the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office while bragging about how he took the pressure off by ousting Comey.

How did AG Barr conclude that there was no obstruction when Mueller, after 2 years of investigation, declined to exonerate Trump? Maybe the next generation will be given that information, if they still have a democracy.

My take is that the DOJ was not going to charge a sitting president. That had been made abundantly clear from the outset.

Dealing with presidential moral and legal turputude is the responsibility of congress. Forcing congress to do it's job is the responsibility of the electorate. That is how the DOJ wants it. That is how the FBI wants it. That's how they've said they want it.

There is no "Deep State".
 
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Toontown said:
Trump does not talk or act like a president. Trump talks and acts like an organized crime boss. And now he is talking and acting like a crime boss who has skated. He's already publicly thirsting for revenge, darkly hinting about unnamed people who "know who they are", who will be "looked at".
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Obviously, if nothing happens to Trump after all this, it'll only serve to embolden him and his enablers and successors.
 
Toontown said:
Trump does not talk or act like a president. Trump talks and acts like an organized crime boss.
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That's by design. It's a feature, not a bug.

"We need some tough Alpha Male to go in and cut through all the wishy-washy pansy B.S and tweak them sissy limp wristed liberals" was his campaign slogan in everything but literally and coming out and saying it.
 
JoeMorgue said:
That's by design. It's a feature, not a bug.

"We need some tough Alpha Male to go in and cut through all the wishy-washy pansy B.S and tweak them sissy limp wristed liberals" was his campaign slogan in everything but literally and coming out and saying it.
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Which is ironic, given that Trump is anything but an alpha.
 
Belz... said:
Which is ironic, given that Trump is anything but an alpha.
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No he's a troll. Pure and simple. That's what he was elected to do, that's what he's doing with amazing consistency, and that's why he keeps winning, because he and his followers are not using the same definition of "winning" as everybody else.

And like almost all trolls "You just can't handle me because I'm keeping it real" is what he and his hangers on hide behind the most.
 
I've mentioned this quote before recently, but the response to the Mueller report's release has really refreshed its relevance:

C.S. Lewis said:
Suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper. Then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not be quite true, or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one's first feeling, 'Thank God, even they aren't quite so bad as that,' or is it a feeling of disappointment, and even a determination to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible? If it is the second then it is, I am afraid, the first step in a process which, if followed to the end, will make us into devils.
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How many people here, upon hearing that Mueller found no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, were disappointed rather than relieved? If you felt the former and not the latter, well, the impulse is quite human and understandable. But it is also wrong.
 
Ziggurat said:
How many people here, upon hearing that Mueller found no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, were disappointed rather than relieved.
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*Shrugs* Somewhere between "fewer then I fear" and "but still more then it should be."

There's nuance in there, to be sure. The line between "Angry because I disagree with the results" and "Upset that I didn't have my anger and outrage feed" is... hazy and indistinct and waivers all over the place.

I'm "mad" for certain definitions of "mad" at the results because as an intellectual opinion I think they are factually wrong.

Is that different from "GODDAMNIT I WANTED SOMETHING ELSE TO BE MAD AT THE BAD ORANGE MAN FOR!?" Yes. Is that what at least some people here are feeling? Probably. Is there anyway from a third party to determine a difference between that and just being upset with the results? No.
 
JoeMorgue said:
*Shrugs* Somewhere between "fewer then I fear" and "but still more then it should be."

There's nuance in there, to be sure. The line between "Angry because I disagree with the results" and "Upset that I didn't have my anger and outrage feed" is... hazy and indistinct and waivers all over the place.

I'm "mad" for certain definitions of "mad" at the results because as an intellectual opinion I think they are factually wrong.

Is that different from "GODDAMNIT I WANTED SOMETHING ELSE TO BE MAD AT THE BAD ORANGE MAN FOR!?" Yes. Is that what at least some people here are feeling? Probably. Is there anyway from a third party to determine a difference between that and just being upset with the results? No.
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Has anyone trustworthy actually seen the report to see what was found yet? As I heard that all that's been released is a couple of pages parsed by a Trumpist, I think it's a bit early for anyone to be relieved or disappointed by findings in the report.
 
Ziggurat said:
How many people here, upon hearing that Mueller found no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, were disappointed rather than relieved? If you felt the former and not the latter, well, the impulse is quite human and understandable. But it is also wrong.
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I was, and continue to be, confused.

The report does not jibe with things we've actually seen Trump do. He asked Russia on live TV to hack Clinton's email. They then hacked Clinton's email. Giuliani demonstrated accurate foreknowledge of a Wikileaks hacked email dump. As president, Trump has arguably quo'ed Russia's quid several times in ways that are otherwise inexplicable.

There has been, very visibly, some evidence of cooperation. I'm not sure how Barr can summarize that there is no evidence of cooperation. I'm curious to see the report myself so I can understand.
 
uke2se said:
Has anyone trustworthy actually seen the report to see what was found yet? As I heard that all that's been released is a couple of pages parsed by a Trumpist, I think it's a bit early for anyone to be relieved or disappointed by findings in the report.
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I'm not being funny here but we know Trump's not going to be indicted over anything in the Mueller report, so what else do we really need to know that isn't just pure details or that vague "Political damage" thing yet again?
 
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