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Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

Trump Tweets

The Fake News Media is working overtime to blame me for the horrible attack in New Zealand. They will have to work very hard to prove that one. So Ridiculous!
 
cullennz said:
I will watch with amusement when Labour, the Greens and the left call for better data collection by the GCSB and SIS after screaming from their parapet how evil their work was, not that long ago.
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Damn right. They'd be committing political suicide to be against it in any way.

Still, they'll take some comfort from the new gun laws. Nothing to do with being green, but it will hurt the very people who wouldn't vote Green if they were on a rack with a glowing anal poker on standby.

rjh01 said:
I do not think this should be allowed. A person cannot defend themselves very well against a serious charge even under the best of conditions.
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Nope. It's your human right and perfectly fine.

rjh01 said:
The trial should answer one question - was he the person that killed the 50 people? His beliefs in immigration and related matters must not be aired.
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I'd bet Gates' fortune against a dog turn he will have no opportunity to air any of his views. If he tries, the words will be suppressed, and he'll be held in contempt.

As Smartcooky notes, judges have plenty of power to deal with dickheads.

Security at the trial will be a whole new level for NZ.

smartcooky said:
As an aside, I notice that little weasel Nicky Hagar and his fellow weasel Kevin Hackwell have kept their mouths well shut in the last few days.
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What would they have to say about it?

Much as I am no Hager fan, it's true that he's been the victim of illegal surveillance and had his rights well and truly violated.

Another case of if the watchers hadn't been wasting their time on people like Hager, maybe they'd have been looking at Tarrant.

You do realise the cops admitted they were wrong and had to pay him out, don't you?

Belz... said:
Yeah they'll have a hard time doing that given that the perpetrator mentions Trump by name in his manifesto...
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He mentions lots of people. Are we blaming all of them as well? How about Pewdie Pie? He asked people to subscribe to his channel - should we charge him as an accessory?

I would agree that Trump has given strength to racists, but you can't blame him any more than Pewdie Pie or the other people Tarrant referenced.
 
Perhaps a rework of one of Mark Twain's quotes is long overdue:

If your name shows up in some nutbag mass-shooter's manifesto, it's time to pause and reflect.













Or in Trump's case... perhaps not.

 
angrysoba said:
Huh? Yeah, I think you have made the obvious point that the distinction between large, professional distribution, and small-time distribution is reflected in the sentencing.

Again, this may well be true of child pornography, or even downloading and distributing copyrighted material.
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It was more about how the law should explicitly show that there's a legal distinction. I don't think any terrorists are going to be deterred from downloading, viewing, producing or distribution terrorist propaganda by some very long theoretical prison sentences.

Yet as shown by peoples reaction, it can clearly give impression that the legal consequences are draconian and extreme.
 
rjh01 said:
How about a serial killer? You mentioned they had to be a group of people. You never said they had to be all in one place or all killed in one day.

I give you Gary RidgwayWP. Killed 49 people with his bare hands or ligatures. That 49 is just how many murders were linked to him. It probably was a lot higher. Could be over 90.
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One at a time over dozens of years, all at once on one day.
People who mistakenly got into Ridgway's car, unsuspecting people in a mosque.

Surely you are not serious.
 
uke2se said:
I'd say leaving them locked up without trial on an island would be a better option. That's how we treat terrorism-suspects.
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That beggars the question if people who watch the video are racists or just morbidly curious.
 
Belz... said:
That sounds ridiculous and over-the-top.
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YMMV. Sounds fine to me

Belz... said:
Anyone who even just watches this stuff is a suspected terrorist?

Are you joking?
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Come on Belz, you know that is not what she said

That’s despite a warning from New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern that anyone caught downloading or distributing such material — especially the killer’s 17 minute bodycam footage — faces up to 10 years jail.​
 
angrysoba said:
Sure, why not? IANAL, but if you download it, it can be distributed in future from your file. If you stream it, unless you are recording at the same time, you are not making copies.

There are probably analogous laws relating to terrorism and child pornography. If I downloaded a cache of terrorist materials, I would expect it to be illegal. If I merely view it, maybe not.
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Everything you watch or see on a web page is downloaded onto your computer somewhere, even if only temporarily.

I don't want to watch the video. I like horror movies, war movies, but I don't want to see innocent terrified people being massacred like that, not in real life.

I was morbidly curious at first but there some things I just can't or won't do. I'm not sure what to think about anyone who did who isn't connected to the case.
 
Erdogan, who I hereby nickname *The Unspeakable Turk" is trying to exploit this for political advantage. And got a sharp rejoinder from the NZ PM for it.
Fun times.
 
Stout said:
Do you accept responsibility for your role in the Christchurch shootings and if you do, what do you plan to do to make amends ?
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I do. In the future I will call out racism and Islamophobia wherever I see it, and try to actively contribute to a more progressive and inclusive society. I will vote for progressive candidates in elections. I will participate in community events. Actually I probably won't do that last thing because I'm an introvert with social anxiety. My power is not great, but I will do what I can to work towards a society that marginalises and excludes regressive, paranoid and xenophobic thinking.
 
"The next day, he was sent an Australian news report which featured some of the footage livestreamed on Facebook by the gunman. In the video, Ramzan saw a grey-haired man wearing a white Fiji rugby sevens jersey, lying at the top of a pile of bodies.

"That's him," he said. "Straight away I knew. But there is something in me saying he might have survived."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214232

Yet facebook are being asked for accounts of all those who watched the video by the minister with a view to prosecute.
 
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