Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

[sadhatter]

It is a lie; it always has been and it always will be.

A gun allows you to kill people at a distance, in large numbers (and a semi-automatic increases your kill-rate/time).

A knife, a hammer, a bayonet etc, is up cloase and personal... and one at a time.

Define large number, and I'll look for a non gun murder that is within a reasonable number of your your definition. Keep in mind I'll not accept any number not matched by a readily available firearm. And if you are going to pick the largest number you can find, then we have to have a discussion on whether we are talking average or peak murder rates in civilian situations or in any situation.

I'd rather face down 1 coward with a gun than 10 determined guys with knives.

 

[arthwollipot]

Define large number, and I'll look for a non gun murder that is within a reasonable number of your your definition.

How about 49?

 

[smartcooky]

The point I was making that right now, feelings are understandably very high, and Jacinda has earned universal respect across the country, and world, for that matter.

Indeed she has

Jacinda has shown Trump what it means to show heartfelt compassion and understanding. That happens when your national leader is not a narcissistic wanker.

Black Power & Mongrel Mob are despicable crime gangs with a history of rape, murder and drug dealing over the past half century. They've all come out in solidarity with the muslim community, as has everyone else, no matter what colour or creed they might be. A vigil at Wellington yesterday drew 11,000 people, and that's a different island, let alone city.

To put this into perspective, its 11,000 in a city with a greater population of just over 400,000.

I think the killer's plan appears to have backfired.. its brought diverse peoples together instead of driving a wedge between them.

 

[smartcooky]

Define large number, and I'll look for a non gun murder that is within a reasonable number of your your definition. Keep in mind I'll not accept any number not matched by a readily available firearm. And if you are going to pick the largest number you can find, then we have to have a discussion on whether we are talking average or peak murder rates in civilian situations or in any situation.

I'd rather face down 1 coward with a gun than 10 determined guys with knives.

And I willl I define what I will not accept

Bombs on planes, trains, buses or any other form of public transport
Bombing of buildings
Deliberate crashing of planes, trains, buses or any other form of public transport
The use of gas, poisons or viruses
Driving of vehicles into crowds

Your example has to be a hand held weapon, wielded by a single perpetrator against a group of people.

 

[metacristi]

I have no problem condemning Islam, and the terrorism conducted in its name. But that is off-topic here. Please start another thread about that if you don’t want to be accused of whataboutery.

Good to know that you agree with that. For rational people may also reply with ''their however's ' but only to point out the existence of double standards in the assessment of Islam, definitely not to 'dilute the message' of condemnation of such crimes.

 

[arthwollipot]

And I willl I define what I will not accept

Bombs on planes, trains, buses or any other form of public transport
Bombing of buildings
Deliberate crashing of planes, trains, buses or any other form of public transport
The use of gas, poisons or viruses
Driving of vehicles into crowds

Your example has to be a hand held weapon, wielded by a single perpetrator against a group of people.

I'm pretty sure sadhatter will be able to find one example of someone killing 49 or more people with something that isn't a gun. Maybe a couple. But there are many more than a couple of examples of someone killing 49 or more people with a gun. It's not going to be even remotely close.

There's a reason we use guns for warfare now and not swords and spears.

 

[cullennz]

Indeed she has

Jacinda has shown Trump what it means to show heartfelt compassion and understanding. That happens when your national leader is not a narcissistic wanker.



To put this into perspective, its 11,000 in a city with a greater population of just over 400,000.

I think the killer's plan appears to have backfired.. its brought diverse peoples together instead of driving a wedge between them.

Bit of a problem when her Deputy PM is a racist xenophobe though

 

[smartcooky]

Bit of a problem when her Deputy PM is a racist xenophobe though

Alleviated to a certain extent by the fact that he is not from the same party.

 

[cullennz]

Alleviated to a certain extent by the fact that he is not from the same party.

Not really. Given his influence

Once it all cools down his past comments on Muslims will come out again, in fact it started today.

So Ardern will end up being probably unfairly but inevitably hit by association

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Two years this scum was planning this. It should have been stopped.

And Trump sucks big time today, he's part of this and he isn't capable of understanding how/why.

And his spokespeople are just as clueless insisting Trump is not a white supremacist.

 

[arthwollipot]

Two years this scum was planning this. It should have been stopped.

And Trump sucks big time today, he's part of this and he isn't capable of understanding how/why.

And his spokespeople are just as clueless insisting Trump is not a white supremacist.

"The President is not a white supremacist" is not a phrase that anyone should have to say, let alone a member of staff.

 

[The Atheist]

Not really. Given his influence

Once it all cools down his past comments on Muslims will come out again, in fact it started today.

So Ardern will end up being probably unfairly but inevitably hit by association

Nah.

People well and truly know who Winston is and Ardern's class is shining through sufficiently to totally eclipse the small-minded jerk. Interestingly, also a short-arse.

There will be no blow-back on her.

 

[cullennz]

Nah.

People well and truly know who Winston is and Ardern's class is shining through sufficiently to totally eclipse the small-minded jerk. Interestingly, also a short-arse.

There will be no blow-back on her.

Fair point

Probably right

But worth pointing out a reminder to what our friend and Ardern's directly chosen number two thinks

"This two-faced approach is how radical Islam works – present the acceptable face to one audience and the militant face to another.

"In New Zealand the Muslim community have been quick to show us their more moderate face, but as some media reports have shown, there is a militant underbelly here as well.

"Underneath it all the agenda is to promote fundamentalist Islam.

"Indeed these groups are like the mythical Hydra – a serpent underbelly with multiple heads capable of striking at any time and in any direction."

He went on to note that "in many parts of the world the Christian faith is under direct threat from radical Islam", and said that he had sent a letter to all leaders of Islamic groups in New Zealand, calling them to name any "radicals, troublemakers and potential dangers to our society".

Classy

 

[The Atheist]

Classy

I'd quoted that exact piece up the page a bit.
_______________________________

I'd been meaning to ponder how long the false flag theories would be, and the answer to that looks pretty immediate.
________________________________

We find that one of the other people arrested is an 18 yo who shared the live stream video. He's been remanded in custody, and it looks like they're ready to throw several books at him.

I wonder if this might be a little on the over-reaction side, given that Farcebook alone removed 1,500,000 copies in the first 24 hours.
_________________________________

And of you haven't read the story of how a couple of veteran country cops who were in Chch to attend a course on armed offenders took the murderer down, this is a great read that might just give you a little more faith in the NZ Police. Did for me.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213551

 

[cullennz]

I'd quoted that exact piece up the page a bit.
_______________________________

I'd been meaning to ponder how long the false flag theories would be, and the answer to that looks pretty immediate.
________________________________

We find that one of the other people arrested is an 18 yo who shared the live stream video. He's been remanded in custody, and it looks like they're ready to throw several books at him.

I wonder if this might be a little on the over-reaction side, given that Farcebook alone removed 1,500,000 copies in the first 24 hours.
_________________________________

And of you haven't read the story of how a couple of veteran country cops who were in Chch to attend a course on armed offenders took the murderer down, this is a great read that might just give you a little more faith in the NZ Police. Did for me.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213551

Sorry.

Didn't realise

Still a bit of reality is probably worth a bit of highlighting again

 

[The Atheist]

Still a bit of reality is probably worth a bit of highlighting again

That's fine, I agree with you.

The little weasel and a heap of Nats are trying to wipe their records of comments that look awfully provocative this week.

The more places like this that highlight them will help ensure people don't forget.

 

[cullennz]

That's fine, I agree with you.

The little weasel and a heap of Nats are trying to wipe their records of comments that look awfully provocative this week.

The more places like this that highlight them will help ensure people don't forget.

Totally agree

But these things tend to work both ways

I will watch with amusement when Labour, the Greens and the left call for better data collection by the GCSB and SIS after screaming from their parapet how evil their work was, not that long ago.

 

[rjh01]

And in a total surprise to everyone, Tarrant has sacked his public defender and will defend himself.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213752

I'm sure the judge will be in no mood to allow him to spew his filth in court.

The fact of his incarceration has already come up, and there is zero chance he'll be allowed in the general population - the gangs have already intimated he's going to be a target: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213526

I do not think this should be allowed. A person cannot defend themselves very well against a serious charge even under the best of conditions. A lawyer should be appointed to conduct his defence. If the defendant does not like that lawyer they can find another one. But once the trial has started the lawyer can only be sacked with the judge's permission. I do not want NZ to have their version of the David Eastman^WP original trial. We all knew at the time he was guilty, except he was not guilty. Suppose my comment above was not a waste of keystrokes and that he is innocent? It would take a good lawyer to uncover that fact. Otherwise do not bother with a trial, just lock him up and throw away the key.

The trial should answer one question - was he the person that killed the 50 people? His beliefs in immigration and related matters must not be aired.

 

[rjh01]

I'm pretty sure sadhatter will be able to find one example of someone killing 49 or more people with something that isn't a gun. Maybe a couple. But there are many more than a couple of examples of someone killing 49 or more people with a gun. It's not going to be even remotely close.

There's a reason we use guns for warfare now and not swords and spears.

I cannot give you an example of a mass murder, but I can give you an example that is shocking. How about a murder in a sterile area of an airport? What makes this so shocking is that it happened where you should expect to be the least violent public place with heavy security. The criminals were only arrested when they were in a taxi.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/bikie-killed-in-sydney-airport-brawl-20090323-95xc.html

The attack took place in terminal three, one of the most secure and monitored public spaces in Australia.

Edit. Terminal three is located in Sydney airport.

 

[sadhatter]

I do not think this should be allowed. A person cannot defend themselves very well against a serious charge even under the best of conditions. A lawyer should be appointed to conduct his defence. If the defendant does not like that lawyer they can find another one. But once the trial has started the lawyer can only be sacked with the judge's permission. I do not want NZ to have their version of the David Eastman^WP original trial. We all knew at the time he was guilty, except he was not guilty. Suppose my comment above was not a waste of keystrokes and that he is innocent? It would take a good lawyer to uncover that fact. Otherwise do not bother with a trial, just lock him up and throw away the key.

The trial should answer one question - was he the person that killed the 50 people? His beliefs in immigration and related matters must not be aired.

I find your statement, given the facts presented, so absurd as to want to ask you the following question so I do not look foolish in replying in a serious tone.

You are making a joke, right? There is no need for me to seriously reply? Is late and im thinking the humor is bouncing off NE.