Mueller Investigation pt5

[phiwum]

- I'm still a little hazy on the whole "process crime" distinction.

- Why are we, yet again, talking about Bill Clinton? So what we have to let the country be destroyed so we can "even the score card" about Bill Clinton getting a rusty trombone from the chubby chick that brings in the mail?

I raised Bill Clinton just to see if Zig had a principle in mind that he is willing to consistently apply. It is useful to try and suss what the principle is by referring to past situations.

I am not introducing any sort of tu quoque but rather trying to figger out what bothers Zig about the treatment of Flynn. This has not so far been successful. (His mention that the agents interviewing Flynn saw no outward signs of lying is particularly puzzling.)

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I think we can safely call that post a "cainism"

Or a 'large canine'ism. If the collar fits...

 

[quadraginta]

Trump Tweets

<snip>

So it was indeed (just proven in court papers) “last in his class” (Annapolis) John McCain that sent the Fake Dossier to the FBI and Media hoping to have it printed BEFORE the Election. He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!

Wow. A Three-fer. In only one sentence. Not bad, even for Trump.

McCain was not "last" in his Academy class.

McCain was not in possession of the Steele dossier before Trump was elected.

McCain did not release it to the media.

Donnie's gonna need extra pants for all that fire.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

What the Democrats have done in trying to steal a Presidential Election, first at the “ballot box” and then, after that failed, with the “Insurance Policy,” is the biggest Scandal in the history of our Country!

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Retweeted

William Craddick
@williamcraddick
Russiagate was designed in part to help the UK counter Russian influence by baiting the United States into taking a hard line against them. Leaves us all with a more dangerous world as a consequence. Just another episode of the Great Game.

 

[Ziggurat]

What does the highlighted matter? I understand that, per Grassley, “agents saw no change in his demeanor or tone that would say he was being untruthful.” Given the evidence that he lied, this only leads one to conclude that he lied well.

How do you tell the difference between someone not recalling something correctly and lying about it? Demeanor can help. Careful examination of exactly what they say can also help, but that's not possible because (again) the FBI doesn't record its interviews.

I don't know whether notifying an administration official of the nature of an interview is unusual or not. Do you have any reputable source suggesting that this is an unusual procedure? If so, I'll wait and comment at that time (I'm taking your word that Flynn wasn't so notified, since I don't recall that detail.)

Does Comey count as a reputable source on this?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/co...ents-to-interview-mike-flynn-was-not-standard

Comey went on to acknowledge the way the interview was set up – not through the White House counsel’s office, but arranged directly with Flynn – was not standard practice. He called it “something I probably wouldn't have done or maybe gotten away with in a more … organized administration.”

Describing how it is usually done, Comey said, “If the FBI wanted to send agents into the White House itself to interview a senior official, you would work through the White House counsel, and there would be discussions and approvals and who would be there.”

Recalling his decision to bypass those steps, Comey said, “I thought: ‘It’s early enough, let’s just send a couple guys over.’”​

Thanks for the correction.

There was no underlying criminal conduct for Clinton either.

There was alleged underlying criminal conduct for Clinton: sexual harassment. They got him on a process crime, and the underlying allegations were never quite determined because the case was settled, but it did start with an allegation of an underlying crime.

 

[a_unique_person]

Trump Retweeted

William Craddick
@williamcraddick
Russiagate was designed in part to help the UK counter Russian influence by baiting the United States into taking a hard line against them. Leaves us all with a more dangerous world as a consequence. Just another episode of the Great Game.

He dare the enemy UK try to break up the great alliance between the US and Russia.

 

[Ziggurat]

The judge asking whether the prosecutors seriously considered bringing charges of treason on Flynn when he read through what was presented to him is pretty damning on that count, really.

If Flynn was really treasonous, then why did Mueller recommend no prison time?

 

[a_unique_person]

If Flynn was really treasonous, then why did Mueller recommend no prison time?

Co-operation.

 

[Stacko]

Trump Retweeted

William Craddick
@williamcraddick
Russiagate was designed in part to help the UK counter Russian influence by baiting the United States into taking a hard line against them. Leaves us all with a more dangerous world as a consequence. Just another episode of the Great Game.

It's perfectly healthy that the president in validating someone that thinks that CIA was behind the Christchurch massacre three days after the event. Fine people again.

 

[a_unique_person]

He dare the enemy UK try to break up the great alliance between the US and Russia.

https://disobedientmedia.com/author/wcraddick

Craddock is just your common conspiracy theorist. He is be being quoted by the President of the USA. WTF.

 

[Ziggurat]

Co-operation.

That’s enough to get not simply a reduced sentence, but NO prison, for a traitor? I’m not a Mueller fan, but he doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy to go soft on traitors, and if he did that would be pretty damning of him.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Oh Christ. The “ process crime” ********.

“They did not conspire, they merely discussed it and carried it out”

You treasonous apologists disgust me. Take some pride in your country before whoring it out to scum like Putin and Kim Jong Il.

If a Democrat did this same thing, Trumpanzees would be calling for a hanging. "Process crime" is just idiot-speak for "ya..he's guilty, but....."

 

[thaiboxerken]

That’s enough to get not simply a reduced sentence, but NO prison, for a traitor? I’m not a Mueller fan, but he doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy to go soft on traitors, and if he did that would be pretty damning of him.

We don't know if Mueller had evidence of treason, it was mentioned that the Judge hearing the case asked a rhetorical question about why Trump's friend wasn't charged with treason given how Flynn sold the country out. We do know that Flynn's official charges are the result of a plea deal, which is often a plea to lesser crimes to avoid sentencing for more serious crimes. I suspect Mueller is much better at his job than you and other Trump loyalists wish he were.

 

[smartcooky]

If Flynn was really treasonous...

Err, could it be because he did not commit treason?

Educate yourself sometime and look up the definition of treason under US Law.

...then why did Mueller recommend no prison time?

Err, that is not what he recommended

Case 1:17-cr-00232-EGS Document 46 Filed 12/04/18 Page 6 of 7

III.

Conclusion
For the foregoing reasons, as well as those contained in the government’s Addendum and Motion for Downward Departure, the government submits that a sentence at the low end of the advisory guideline range is appropriate and warranted.

Respectfully submitted,
ROBERT S. MUELLER, III
Special Counsel​

​

 

[Aridas]

If Flynn was really treasonous, then why did Mueller recommend no prison time?

Extensive cooperation. As for treason, the prosecution did clarify that that wasn't on the table, which is hardly a surprise given how strictly the US defines it. Again, though, the point in play here is that the judge even asking that is pretty damning evidence that Flynn did much worse than just lie to the FBI.

 

[Ziggurat]

Err, could it be because he did not commit treason?

Educate yourself sometime and look up the definition of treason under US Law.

Read the thread sometime and see who originated the claim. It wasn’t me.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Flynn can't possibly have committed treason, because we aren't at war with Russia, Turkey or the Arabian kingdoms.
In times of war, what he didn't probably would have constituted treason.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Read the thread sometime and see who originated the claim. It wasn’t me.

But you're the one claiming all Flynn did was some minor perjury when that was the charge he plea bargained down to.

 

[smartcooky]

Flynn can't possibly have committed treason, because we aren't at war with Russia, Turkey or the Arabian kingdoms.
In times of war, what he didn't probably would have constituted treason.

The last time the USA declared war was June 5, 1942

The last time the USA was involved in a declared war was September 2, 1945

NOTE:
Korea and Vietnam were "Police Actions"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_action