Mueller Investigation pt5

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Cabbage said:
How about this specific circumstance?
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I'm not aware of any specific lies about the Trump Tower meeting which meet the legal requirements for perjury. Lying to the press certainly doesn't. Do you know of such a lie?
 
Cabbage said:
Yeah, they would be better off with the strategy of just having a bunch of clandestine meetings with Trump officials, merely giving the *appearance* of collusion, just for the fun of it. LOL!
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It's worked out fabulously for the Russians. It's made Trump illegitimate in the eyes of many, regardless of what actually happened at those meetings. I think it's entirely possible that Putin played Trump, without him having to give or get anything in the exchange.
 
Ziggurat said:
I'm not aware of any specific lies about the Trump Tower meeting which meet the legal requirements for perjury. Lying to the press certainly doesn't. Do you know of such a lie?
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Wow, talk about willful ignorance.

These guys lied on their security clearance forms, perjury on the forms is a felony.
“The U.S. Criminal Code (title 18, section 1001) provides that knowingly falsifying or concealing a material fact is a felony which may result in fines and/or up to five (5) years imprisonment. In addition, Federal agencies generally fire, do not grant a security clearance, or disqualify individuals who have materially and deliberately falsified these forms, and this remains a part of the permanent record for future placements.”
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Ziggurat said:
It's worked out fabulously for the Russians. It's made Trump illegitimate in the eyes of many, regardless of what actually happened at those meetings. I think it's entirely possible that Putin played Trump, without him having to give or get anything in the exchange.
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So the Russians concluded that playing a game like this is worth the risk, huh? The Trump team, too, since they are the ones being so secretive and deceitful about these meetings. Well OK then; that, after all, was our original topic of discussion:

Ziggurat said:
Start with the fact that Putin probably expected Hillary to win. Almost everyone did, and with good reason. Why collude with the future loser? Plenty of risk and little upside with that strategy. Then note that Russia's involvement seems to have been directed mostly at stirring the ****, as they say, rather than trying to achieve any specific wins. Which makes sense, because that advances their aims regardless of the outcome, and the outcome didn't look like it would be a Trump win. Finally, note that even after years of investigation, there's still no apparent there there.
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What more would the Russians really be risking if they actually made the collusion official? And "little upside"??? You don't consider the potential for Russian sanctions being removed (as was evidently discussed at the Trump Tower meeting; hence the excuse of "adoptions") to be an upside??? And considering that upside, does that risk really provide evidence that collusion didn't happen? That is what you claimed, and that is what I'm calling BS on.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Meghan McCain’s response, via Twitter:

“No one will ever love you the way they loved my father.... I wish I had been given more Saturday’s with him. Maybe spend yours with your family instead of on twitter obsessing over mine?”
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Way to go, Meghan! It's obvious Trump goes after your father for the same reason he goes after Obama: he knows he'll never be half the man either of them are!
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Wow, talk about willful ignorance.

These guys lied on their security clearance forms, perjury on the forms is a felony.
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The evolution of Trumpanzee excuses and rhetoric is interesting. When Trump said he didn't know anything about the tower meeting, they sided with him on that point. Now that evidence shows that Trump lied about it, they say it isn't illegal to lie to the press.

This is a pattern repeated in all Trump scandals.

1. Deny the allegation.
2. When evidence allegation is true, attack the persons making allegations.
3. When allegation evidence gets strong, deny the allegation is illegal or attack Hillary Clinton.
4. Affirm the allegation is true, but taken out of context.
5. When context is shown, say that it isn't a big deal. Attack Mueller.

I'm missing a few steps, but it's late. The pattern is often seen in this forum and anywhere Trump's supporters have a voice.
 
thaiboxerken said:
The evolution of Trumpanzee excuses and rhetoric is interesting. When Trump said he didn't know anything about the tower meeting, they sided with him on that point. Now that evidence shows that Trump lied about it, they say it isn't illegal to lie to the press.

This is a pattern repeated in all Trump scandals.

1. Deny the allegation.
2. When evidence allegation is true, attack the persons making allegations.
3. When allegation evidence gets strong, deny the allegation is illegal or attack Hillary Clinton.
4. Affirm the allegation is true, but taken out of context.
5. When context is shown, say that it isn't a big deal. Attack Mueller.

I'm missing a few steps, but it's late. The pattern is often seen in this forum and anywhere Trump's supporters have a voice.
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it's a desperate meta-search for excuses for being wrong about the source of being wrong. They just can't admit that the source of their wrongness has been so damned wrong from the outset. They can't seem to find anything right with him when all the wrongness gets too much but they still need to be right. So they have to insist that being wrong is wrong too. Someone else must be wrong instead. Therefore they are right.:boggled:
 
Norman Alexander said:
it's a desperate meta-search for excuses for being wrong about the source of being wrong. They just can't admit that the source of their wrongness has been so damned wrong from the outset. They can't seem to find anything right with him when all the wrongness gets too much but they still need to be right. So they have to insist that being wrong is wrong too. Someone else must be wrong instead. Therefore they are right.:boggled:
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All kinds of nonsense happens when people try to defend the indefensible. Conspiracy theories, moving of goal posts, attacking Hillary and Democrats, attacking Meuller, telling lies, telling lies about their lies, admitting it's a lie then calling it a truth.. it's an amazing look into cognitive dissonance at work.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
it's a desperate meta-search for excuses for being wrong about the source of being wrong. They just can't admit that the source of their wrongness has been so damned wrong from the outset. They can't seem to find anything right with him when all the wrongness gets too much but they still need to be right. So they have to insist that being wrong is wrong too. Someone else must be wrong instead. Therefore they are right.:boggled:
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...and no one does it better than the capital R Religious, because after years of scandal they have become adapt at rationalizing bad news away and constantly live with a siege mentality.
 
Trump Tweets

Report: Christopher Steele backed up his Democrat & Crooked Hillary paid for Fake & Unverified Dossier with information he got from “send in watchers” of low ratings CNN. This is the info that got us the Witch Hunt!

So it was indeed (just proven in court papers) “last in his class” (Annapolis) John McCain that sent the Fake Dossier to the FBI and Media hoping to have it printed BEFORE the Election. He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!
 
Ziggurat said:
Hatfill has relevance to this thread. The fact that I didn't comment on Hatfill at the time does not. That isn't hard to understand, and yet you still failed to.
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No, Hatfill doesn’t have relevance to this thread. It’s just another sad attempt from a closet Trump supporter to distract and deflect.
 
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johnny karate said:
No, Hatfill doesn’t have relevance to this thread.
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Sure he is. He's a counter-example to the claim that if you're innocent, you don't have anything to fear from the FBI. It's really not complicated, and the only thing offered in response is denialism.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Report: Christopher Steele backed up his Democrat & Crooked Hillary paid for Fake & Unverified Dossier with information he got from “send in watchers” of low ratings CNN. This is the info that got us the Witch Hunt!

So it was indeed (just proven in court papers) “last in his class” (Annapolis) John McCain that sent the Fake Dossier to the FBI and Media hoping to have it printed BEFORE the Election. He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!
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These comments are wholly consistent: CNN needed the dossier for ratings, but Fake News wouldn't even report this garbage.
 
Ziggurat said:
Sure he is. He's a counter-example to the claim that if you're innocent, you don't have anything to fear from the FBI. It's really not complicated, and the only thing offered in response is denialism.
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It wasn’t about the FBI. It was about Mueller.

You saw an opening to introduce an anti-Mueller right wing talking point and you took it.

I’ll admit that it was artfully done, but no less cynical and intellectually dishonest than the clumsier attempts by other Trump defenders.
 
Ziggurat said:
But not in a way that makes any sense.
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Again, if you now want to say that you didn't mean what you said, then that's fine. I'm not going to get into an "arguing about arguing" back and forth with you. That's always tedious and this thread is cluttered enough with nonsense as it is.
 
johnny karate said:
It wasn’t about the FBI. It was about Mueller.

You saw an opening to introduce an anti-Mueller right wing talking point and you took it.

I’ll admit that it was artfully done, but no less cynical and intellectually dishonest than the clumsier attempts by other Trump defenders.
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Mueller was in charge of the FBI at the time, and was involved in the case. I'd love to hear your theory about how what happened then couldn't possibly happen now. Go on, enlighten us.

And calling me dishonest doesn't suffice as a counter argument, but it's the only thing you have to offer. No surprise though.
 
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