Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

[PhantomWolf]

I think that from the current information available, the two major things we need to look at in our gun laws are...

1) What more information should we be gathering and giving consideration before the issuing of any gun licences?

2) Should single shot weapons that can be converted from single shot to semi-automatic relatively easily, be considered to be of the same class as their semi-auto counterparts?

 

[lionking]

My local airport has a total of 21 commercial fights a day 6 days a week, and just 13 flights on Saturdays, each with a maximum of 34 passengers assuming the flight is full. How long would it take to pay for all the security and changes to the airport buildings that would be required by your scheme?

You seem to also be very be hard of reading. I have already told you twice that adding security to the regional airports was looked onto about a decade back and it was determined that it simply wasn't worth it. What makes you think that you know better than the experts who actually know and studied the situation and then wrote a report on it to with their recommendations to our Government?

A 10 year old report is a fish and chips wrapper.

 

[cullennz]

I think that from the current information available, the two major things we need to look at in our gun laws are...

1) What more information should we be gathering and giving consideration before the issuing of any gun licences?

2) Should single shot weapons that can be converted from single shot to semi-automatic relatively easily, be considered to be of the same class as their semi-auto counterparts?

Second point is a good one for this situation I think

Dude was off the radar, so difficult to put any criticism to him getting an actual licence, provided the vetting was carried out as per rules

 

[PhantomWolf]

That’s an idea. Unfortunately Kiwis have such massive chips on their shoulders they refuse to listen to anyone.

Or maybe we don't listen to people that expound on topics they are totally ignorant about.

How many regional airports are there in New Zealand which have regular commercial flights?

How many flights are there each day to and from those airports?

How many passengers take those flights on average?

Do you have any idea?

 

[PhantomWolf]

Dude was off the radar, so difficult to put any criticism to him getting an actual licence, provided the vetting was carried out as per rules

I'd like that perhaps we do more vetting. Currently it is two testimonials, an interview, and a criminal history check. I'd be more than happy with at least the adding in a social media search as well, try and weed out people that have extremist views online. Since we don't have a 2nd amendment right here, we can pretty much make up whatever rules we like on who can't have a gun.

I know that people are all "Oh why did the Intelligence services have a bead on this guy" but I doubt they'd like the answer to how they could have made sure they did. If someone is pretty quiet about their views, then they aren't going to come to light, and this seems to be the case here. The SIS and GCSB aren't going to be going through everyone's facebook and Twitter accounts just in case.

 

[cullennz]

I'd like that perhaps we do more vetting. Currently it is two testimonials, an interview, and a criminal history check. I'd be more than happy with at least the adding in a social media search as well, try and weed out people that have extremist views online. Since we don't have a 2nd amendment right here, we can pretty much make up whatever rules we like on who can't have a gun.

I know that people are all "Oh why did the Intelligence services have a bead on this guy" but I doubt they'd like the answer to how they could have made sure they did. If someone is pretty quiet about their views, then they aren't going to come to light, and this seems to be the case here. The SIS and GCSB aren't going to be going through everyone's facebook and Twitter accounts just in case.

Probably a valid idea actually.

Tend to agree.

 

[Axxman300]

The PM has stated that the guns used appear to have been modified to make them semi-automatics, which at the moment is how they believe he got hold of them. So it seems that he got single fire weapons legally, modified them into semi-automatics illegally, and somehow got hold of illegal high capacity magazines for them.

Not much any gun laws could have done to stop this, other than doing a better background check into him when he applied for his licence. However even then, people at the shooting club he frequented say he seemed totally normal around them and never expressed any extremist ideas. Similarly a workmate in Australia who had worked with him for 6 years was surprised to learn about his extremism.

I saw his Facebook page, he had a bunch of 30-round magazines. I can't speak to the current information on if the weapon was modified, but it needs to be pointed out that an AR-15 of any kind can shoot as fast as you can squeeze the trigger, which with the right shooter is indistinguishable from full automatic. It's a battle rifle, it's default setting is a deadly-fast trigger.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I saw his Facebook page, he had a bunch of 30-round magazines. I can't speak to the current information on if the weapon was modified, but it needs to be pointed out that an AR-15 of any kind can shoot as fast as you can squeeze the trigger, which with the right shooter is indistinguishable from full automatic. It's a battle rifle, it's default setting is a deadly-fast trigger.

The AR-15 is a class "E" here, so I am assuming that the weapons weren't AR-15's but rather bolt action rifles that had somehow had the receivers modified to make them semi automatics instead. 30 round magazines are illegal period.

 

[Ranb]

I doubt he would have a firearms licence as he would likely fail the "fit and proper person" test.

Why would he fail the fit and proper person test? Isn't it taken for granted by some people on this forum that law abiding gun owners like you and me are just a moment away from being a mass murderer? We are lawful gun owners until we are not?

 

[EHocking]

Not only that, but why bother to do anything like that to a country where an attack would have little effect on those that you actually want to target?

This is why,

“An attack in New Zealand would bring to attention the truth of the assault on our civilisation, that no where (sic) in the world was safe, the invaders were in all of our lands, even in the remotest areas of the world and that there was no where (sic) left to go that was safe and free from mass immigration.”
​

His words from his manifesto.

NZ was targeted to demonstrate no one is safe.
NZ was not his ultimate target for this attack. NZ muslims were not really his ultimate target - he just used quiet, inoffensive targets to shock and horrify.

Also he is a ******* coward. A leading reason for selecting such a “soft” target, rather than engaging a group that might have been able to, and prepared to be able to, protect themselves is that ultimately he’s a ******* coward.

 

[banquetbear]

Isn't it taken for granted by some people on this forum that law abiding gun owners like you and me are just a moment away from being a mass murderer?

..It isn't taken for granted by some in this thread that "law abiding gun owners are just a moment away from being a mass murderer." If that is happening in other threads in this forum can I suggest you argue with the people who are "taking it for granted" in those particular threads rather than trying to argue a point that nobody in this thread has actually made?

 

[Samson]

The discussion leads one to suspect this could not have happened easily in Australia, so we should immediately take their off the shelf model of gun control.
This might lead to a union in other matters of law, immigration CGT and so on that will serve both countries and eliminate the childish sniping New Zealanders indulge in.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Why would he fail the fit and proper person test? Isn't it taken for granted by some people on this forum that law abiding gun owners like you and me are just a moment away from being a mass murderer? We are lawful gun owners until we are not?

Because of his extremist views, which did make him a few moments away from becoming a mass murderer.

Besides, we don't have a 2nd Amendment right here, we can take away your guns (if you are in NZ) because we don't like the look of you.

 

[cmikes]

I'm not shocked by this at all. This is what the young right-wing is.

And still, centrists think antifa is the problem.

Most centrists think that both the alternative to the right and antifa are part of the problem.

 

[PhantomWolf]

This is why,

“An attack in New Zealand would bring to attention the truth of the assault on our civilisation, that no where (sic) in the world was safe, the invaders were in all of our lands, even in the remotest areas of the world and that there was no where (sic) left to go that was safe and free from mass immigration.”
​

His words from his manifesto.

NZ was targeted to demonstrate no one is safe.
NZ was not his ultimate target for this attack. NZ muslims were not really his ultimate target - he just used quiet, inoffensive targets to shock and horrify.

Also he is a ******* coward. A leading reason for selecting such a “soft” target, rather than engaging a group that might have been able to, and prepared to be able to, protect themselves is that ultimately he’s a ******* coward.

You are misinterpreting his words. He was claiming out that nowhere in the world is safe from Islamic invaders, even New Zealand, not that New Zealand was not safe from terrorists. Unless you are going to claim that Islamic refugees into NZ are invaders and terrorists, or that we should be expected a bunch of Rightwing terrorists coming to attack our regional flights to "bring attention to the Muslim problem" then the quote you give is meaningless in the context of the topic.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Most centrists think that both the alternative to the right and antifa are part of the problem.

I disagree, I think that most centrists that actually think about it understand that Antifa is a problem that goes away if the Right wing extremism is solved.

Antifa is more of an anti-ideology than an ideology of its own. If can only exist while that it opposes does.

 

[cmikes]

I disagree, I think that most centrists that actually think about it understand that Antifa is a problem that goes away if the Right wing extremism is solved.

Antifa is more of an anti-ideology than an ideology of its own. If can only exist while that it opposes does.

I don't disagree. The problem is that the alternative to the right sees itself as a reaction to left wing extremism, mostly by co-opting a lot of left wing tactics.

So the alternative to the right is a problem that goes away if the Left wing extremism is solved.

 

[Baylor]

I don't disagree. The problem is that the alternative to the right sees itself as a reaction to left wing extremism, mostly by co-opting a lot of left wing tactics.

So the alternative to the right is a problem that goes away if the Left wing extremism is solved.

The alternative to the right sees itself as a reaction to the failures of boomer conservatism.

 

[Ranb]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/15/asia/new-zealand-gun-control-intl/index.html

According to Alpers, New Zealand firearm legislation has remained substantially unaltered since 1992. Five years later retired High Court judge Thomas Thorp's year-long Review of Firearms Control in New Zealand (1997) recommended major changes, among them that all firearms be individually registered; that restricted weapons like privately held machine guns be permanently disabled; and for a buy-back of military-style semi-automatic weapons.

What is "military style" in NZ? Anything with a pistol grip and detachable mag?

 

[The Atheist]

Dude was off the radar, so difficult to put any criticism to him getting an actual licence, provided the vetting was carried out as per rules

The radar was clearly pointed the wrong way.

I repeat, this bloke was kicked off Megaupload ten years ago. He had miles of history, but the GCSB, the AFP, the ASIS, the NZSIS & NZP were all busy watching guys like Mark Taylor.

I genuinely think they were all patting themselves on the back that there hadn't been any muslim extremist attacks they never even considered the other side. Every time an Ariana Grande concert got whacked or a Guardsman killed, they were reinforced in their thinking they were watching the right threat.

They were wrong.

Also he is a ******* coward. A leading reason for selecting such a “soft” target, rather than engaging a group that might have been able to, and prepared to be able to, protect themselves is that ultimately he’s a ******* coward.

Absolutely.

He also looks like someone who would suffer from short-man syndrome.

It'll be interesting to see whether the forensic psychologists write him up crazy, which he clearly is. I would have thought shooting a hundred people is fairly far from sane.