Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

McHrozni said:
Of those four tweets one might qualify as a girl, the other is a woman. One is a community organization and one is I don't know what, something. A person, most like.

Plus one media organization.



If you have a problem with those I can find more important media outlets.

BBC is an important media organization, right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36534693

Investigators are still trying to establish what led a 29-year-old security guard from Florida to murder 49 people and injure dozens more as they partied in popular gay nightclub Pulse.

He called 911 to tell his motive was loyatly to ISIS, it doesn't seem that hard to "establish motive". He said so himself and yet his alledged sexuality (later debunked) recieved significant coverage.

I doubt this - or anything else - will change your mind, which is exactly what I'm reffering to in my 'whining'.

McHrozni
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Maybe he joined ISIS because he was a closet homosexual? Do you find that so unimportant that it shouldn't be speculated about? Is it enough for you to say "terrorist" and leave it at that?

ETA: I wouldn't have a hissy fit if someone started speculating what led Breivik to become a mass murdering right wing terrorist. In fact, that has been attempted multiple times.
 
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uke2se said:
Maybe he joined ISIS because he was a closet homosexual? Do you find that so unimportant that it shouldn't be speculated about? Is it enough for you to say "terrorist" and leave it at that?
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Here's the recording:

http://time.com/4552365/omar-mateen-orlando-nightclub-shooting-911-calls/

Here's the text:
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/09/orlando-gunman-omar-mateens-911-transcripts-released.html

Feel free to point out which part of "Yo, the airstrike that killed Abu Wahid a few weeks ago -- that's what triggered it, okay?" says "I joined ISIS because I'm gay and they hate gays".

Have fun.

Also, the mere fact we're having this conversation at all proves my point again, so thanks :rolleyes:

McHrozni
 
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McHrozni said:
Here's the recording:

http://time.com/4552365/omar-mateen-orlando-nightclub-shooting-911-calls/

Here's the text:
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/09/orlando-gunman-omar-mateens-911-transcripts-released.html

Feel free to point out which part of "Yo, the airstrike that killed Abu Wahid a few weeks ago -- that's what triggered it, okay?" says "I joined ISIS because I'm gay and they hate gays.

Have fun.

Also, the mere fact we're having this conversation at all proves my point again, so thanks :rolleyes:

McHrozni
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What point is it that you think you have?
 
I imagine the conversation after this will very much focus on access to guns, both in NZ and in other places. That is, of course, appropriate.

I also hope that some serious consideration is made about the general toxicity of the new/alt-right. This guy's manifesto and rifle is plastered with 8chan memes. I was reading the comments on a Fox News article covering the shooting and they are all either blaming the victims, or complaining about Islam or Globalism. They come just short of openly endorsing the slaughter. The mainstream right is increasingly becoming hard to distinguish from the radical right. The ideological base of the alt-right is quite large.

The alt-right is dangerous. Everyone should have already known that, but it's going to be impossible to deny it now.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
I imagine the conversation after this will very much focus on access to guns, both in NZ and in other places. That is, of course, appropriate.

I also hope that some serious consideration is made about the general toxicity of the new/alt-right. This guy's manifesto and rifle is plastered with 8chan memes. I was reading the comments on a Fox News article covering the shooting and they are all either blaming the victims, or complaining about Islam or Globalism. They come just short of openly endorsing the slaughter.

The alt-right is dangerous. Everyone should have already known that, but it's going to be impossible to deny it now.
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Sadly true.
 
cullennz said:
Apparently there just happened to be a massive AOS (Police Armed Offenders Squad) training excersize happening in ChCh, which is why there was such a huge response city wide.

Probably bad to describe this as "a good thing", but kind of handy
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That's on the same level as the bus on 7/7 blowing up right next to the headquarters of the British Medical Association, where even more doctors than usual were there for a meeting. The conspiracy theorists will have a field day....
 
uke2se said:
What point is it that you think you have?
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That we should approach Islam-inspired massacres in the same manner as we do this one and not treat them with undue additional curtesy we currently do.

McHrozni
 
a_unique_person said:
Yes. Got 16 votes at the election but made it to senator still.
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Just read on wiki it was 19, but yeah, ridiculous. I dont understand how that works. If you can bothered, can you explain to me how he became a Senator on the back of 19 votes? Perhaps on the Australian politics thread so as not to derail this.

Anyway, absolutely terrible thing to happen in Christchurch. Very sorry for my NZ brothers and sisters.
 
philkensebben said:
Just read on wiki it was 19, but yeah, ridiculous. I dont understand how that works. If you can bothered, can you explain to me how he became a Senator on the back of 19 votes? Perhaps on the Australian politics thread so as not to derail this.

Anyway, absolutely terrible thing to happen in Christchurch. Very sorry for my NZ brothers and sisters.
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Yeah it's a derail, but look up "preference whispering".
 
This tragedy could have been avoided if New Zealand had sealed up the border. There wouldn't be mass-shootings of Muslims if there weren't Muslims to shoot.
 
lionking said:
I don’t agree with this. However the guns used were obtained, Australia has proven that you can eliminate mass shootings by making semi-automatics almost impossible to obtain. PM Howard stared down the gun enthusiasts and won. I hope your PM can do the same.

Spare me the “right to own whatever gun we want” arguments.
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It has nothing to do with “right to own whatever gun we want”, it has to do with not making knee jerk reactionary laws that wouldn't have prevented the incident in the first place.

It was most probable that he had these weapons illegally in the first place, the extended magazine he had were already illegal in New Zealand full stop, and to have the AR-15 requires an endorsement, one I doubt he had. Making it more illegal would not stop someone that is willing to break the law already.

Australia's gun laws would not prevent what happened here happening there. We appear to have someone that has smuggled in illegal weapons, possibly even modified them illegally, and used them illegally.

Changing the Gun Laws in NZ would have as much effect on preventing what happened, happening again, as changing the murder laws would.
 
PhantomWolf said:
It has nothing to do with “right to own whatever gun we want”, it has to do with not making knee jerk reactionary laws that wouldn't have prevented the incident in the first place.

It was most probable that he had these weapons illegally in the first place, the extended magazine he had were already illegal in New Zealand full stop, and to have the AR-15 requires an endorsement, one I doubt he had. Making it more illegal would not stop someone that is willing to break the law already.

Australia's gun laws would not prevent what happened here happening there. We appear to have someone that has smuggled in illegal weapons, possibly even modified them illegally, and used them illegally.

Changing the Gun Laws in NZ would have as much effect on preventing what happened, happening again, as changing the murder laws would.
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The question will be where exactly the gun came from. If it was straight up smuggled into the country from overseas, then I don't really see any kind of ban having much impact. If it was a legally owned semi-auto in NZ and at some point was stolen or otherwise improperly changed hands leading to a non-licensed person possessing it, I could easily a path forward to banning the guns in the country altogether.

NZ, being a small island nation, might find banning and preventing smuggling a bit easier than other countries that share large land borders.
 
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Information Analyst said:
Say, what...?!
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The overwhelming majority still is.

Unless of course you're going to claim all mass shootings are alike and the attacks against ethnic and religious subgroups don't deserve a special category. Are you of that opinion? Most relevant people disagree you know.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
If you have a problem with those I can find more important media outlets.

BBC is an important media organization, right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36534693

Investigators are still trying to establish what led a 29-year-old security guard from Florida to murder 49 people and injure dozens more as they partied in popular gay nightclub Pulse.

He called 911 to tell his motive was loyatly to ISIS, it doesn't seem that hard to "establish motive". He said so himself and yet his alledged sexuality (later debunked) recieved significant coverage.
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That report is UK dated 15 June 2016, so will be 3½ days or less after event, and is reporting police lines of inquiry. Do you think the police should have stopped dead after that call, and not investigated whether there were other factors?
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
The question will be where exactly the gun came from. If it was straight up smuggled into the country from overseas, then I don't really see any kind of ban having much impact. If it was a legally owned semi-auto in NZ and at some point was stolen or other improperly changed hands, I could easily a path forward to banning the guns in the country altogether.

NZ, being a small island nation, might find banning and preventing smuggling a bit easier than other countries that share large land borders.
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Well this is why I keep on saying that we need to know how he got the weapons. The issue with it being a stolen rifle is that those that have an "E" endorsement on their licences and can own one of these weapons also have very stringent regulations about how they are to be kept to prevent theft of them and have to report any thefts to the police, so again the laws are there.

The fact is that this appears to be a rogue case that no matter what firearms laws were in place could not have been prevented, knee jerking and making it harder for honest citizens to own guns by changing the laws in ways that wouldn't have prevented it is beyond stupid, it's like demanding that airlines refit all their planes with better seatbelts after terrorists use a stinger missile to shoot down at airliner. It might feel good, but it's useless.
 
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