Flying on American Airlines while having a rare genetic skin condition

[Skeptic Ginger]

No disagreement there. I was only addressing a specific argument.

Yeah, I saw that.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think they go hand in hand:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ichthyosis/

Treatment:

ibid

Psoriasis:



Treatment:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/psoriasis/

corticosteroids= aka Betnovate - used to treat eczema.

Take my word for it and drop this. A genetic protein deficiency is not the same as an autoimmune disease and they are not treated the same. Psoriasis and eczema have some components in common and can both treated with steroids.

Your post is an example of why lay people shouldn't try to diagnose their symptoms online.

 

[Vixen]

Take my word for it and drop this. A genetic protein deficiency is not the same as an autoimmune disease and they are not treated the same. Psoriasis and eczema have some components in common and can both treated with steroids.

Your post is an example of why lay people shouldn't try to diagnose their symptoms online.

I'm a lay person?

 

[Vixen]

Eczema, ichthyosis, psoriasis: conditions of cornification.
Burdette-Taylor SR.
Abstract
Conditions of cornification, such as eczema, ichthyosis and psoriasis, are a complex group of genetic, dry, scaly skin diseases. Without appropriate care, individuals with these conditions face a life of limited productivity and social interaction because of their disabilities and disfigurements. Consistent, meticulous interventions are needed to address the potential for infection, dehydration/malnutrition, ineffective thermoregulation, impaired physical mobility, potential for comfort, alteration in parenting, and psychosocial concerns of these patients. The objective of this article is to acquaint healthcare professionals with the unique challenges faced by these patients and their families so that quality of life and patient outcomes can be improved.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7662092

Sure, there are some types acquired in adulthood due to external factors. For example, dermatitis from working with abrasive soaps, or acquired kidney disease or thyroid deficiency. However, we are talking about little kids who have an obvious innate condition (inherited, not acquired).

The idea the parents should produce a doctors note for ignorant airline staff is laughable. The staff of American Airlines should go on a training course teaching them to recognise childhood skin conditions which are as common as almost one in five, or more.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm a lay person?

Who are you then and why did you misread and/or misunderstand the information on these conditions?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7662092

Sure, there are some types acquired in adulthood due to external factors. For example, dermatitis from working with abrasive soaps, or acquired kidney disease or thyroid deficiency. However, we are talking about little kids who have an obvious innate condition (inherited, not acquired)....

That's from 1995 and not accurate in terms of discussing the disease entities.

I can't find what the persons credential stands for: SR.
Senior
Senior Resident?

It looks like it relates to non-prescription medical interventions, nursing care.

It says all these people need emollients. And just because a condition affects the same body part doesn't make the conditions all in one class.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here, try this: eczema vs psoriasis

Eczema, also known as dermatitis, is a collection of conditions that cause red, irritated skin. It is very common: a 2007 study found that 31.6 million Americans met general symptom criteria for eczema, and 17.8 million met the criteria for atopic dermatitis (AD), a type of eczema.

There are six types of eczema, each with its own cause and typical age of onset.

Eczema is an allergic condition in the class of conditions like hay fever and asthma.

... Psoriasis is an immune system-related skin disorder in which new skin cells are produced too rapidly, resulting in an overgrowth of dead skin cells. Normally, the skin grows new cells about once a month, but patients with psoriasis grow new skin cells every two days or so.

Unlike some forms of eczema, psoriasis most commonly develops between the ages of 15 and 35. But much like some eczemas, psoriasis has a genetic component.

There are multiple types of psoriasis. However, in contrast to eczema, there is no variation in the age of onset between the types. Likewise, all types of psoriasis have the same cause.[/QUOTE]
Psoriasis is an autoimmune disease and is in the same class as other rheumatic diseases like Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Differences

Eczema and psoriasis are two conditions that are often confused for each other, but are very different. Eczema, also known as dermatitis, is a group of conditions in which the skin is hot, dry, itchy and scaly. In severe outbreaks, the skin may become raw, red and bleed. Eczema is thought to be a reaction to environmental irritants or allergies, and symptoms are worsened by stress and hormonal fluctuations. Psoriasis is a different inflammatory skin condition. It is marked by patches of raised reddish skin, covered with a whitish silver layer. The most common form (plaque psoriasis) is common on the knees, elbows, scalp and the lower back.

ichthyosis

In a large majority of people with the disease, the cause is related to one or more genetic mutations.

Under normal circumstances, the body continuously renews its skin surface, building new skin cells and allowing older cells to be shed from the surface. Ichthyosis disrupts this balance either because too many replacement skin cells are produced or because the skin cells do not separate well from the skin surface when it is their time to drop off. The result is that skin cells accumulate into thick flakes that adhere to the body and can resemble fish scales.

Again, that is a different disease. Lumping these conditions together is like saying tuberculosis is the same as pneumococcal pneumonia because they can both present as pneumonia.

 

[Vixen]

Here, try this: eczema vs psoriasisEczema is an allergic condition in the class of conditions like hay fever and asthma.

... Psoriasis is an immune system-related skin disorder in which new skin cells are produced too rapidly, resulting in an overgrowth of dead skin cells. Normally, the skin grows new cells about once a month, but patients with psoriasis grow new skin cells every two days or so.

Unlike some forms of eczema, psoriasis most commonly develops between the ages of 15 and 35. But much like some eczemas, psoriasis has a genetic component.

There are multiple types of psoriasis. However, in contrast to eczema, there is no variation in the age of onset between the types. Likewise, all types of psoriasis have the same cause.

Psoriasis is an autoimmune disease and is in the same class as other rheumatic diseases like Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Differences


ichthyosis

Again, that is a different disease. Lumping these conditions together is like saying tuberculosis is the same as pneumococcal pneumonia because they can both present as pneumonia.

I did not say they were all the same. I simply said skin consultants tend to group them together. Psoriasis sufferers might benefit from further sun lamp treatment, but essentially the treatment of these conditions are quite similar to each other.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I did not say they were all the same. I simply said skin consultants tend to group them together. Psoriasis sufferers might benefit from further sun lamp treatment, but essentially the treatment of these conditions are quite similar to each other.

What skin consultants? Treatments are not the same. Maybe they were in 1995 when we knew a lot less about the conditions.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This article is tl;dr but I skimmed it and it has some specific mechanisms going on with the three skin disorders. If you look at the details you can see the conditions are not the same, are not treated the same, essentially they involve overlapping skin components. Your 1995 article is out of date.

ScienceDirect: Cell death by cornification☆

Highlights
• We introduce general aspects of epidermal differentiation and cornification.

• We focus on the anti-apoptotic and anti-necrotic mechanisms acting in the epidermis.

• We review the current knowledge on nuclear and DNA degradation during cornification.

• We review what is known of the organelle degrading mechanisms during cornification.
Abstract
Epidermal keratinocytes undergo a unique form of terminal differentiation and programmed cell death known as cornification. Cornification leads to the formation of the outermost skin barrier, i.e. the cornified layer, as well as to the formation of hair and nails. Different genes are expressed in coordinated waves to provide the structural and regulatory components of cornification. Differentiation-associated keratin intermediate filaments form a complex scaffold accumulating in the cytoplasm and, upon removal of cell organelles, fill the entire cell interior mainly to provide mechanical strength. In addition, a defined set of proteins is cross-linked by transglutamination in the cell periphery to form the so-called cornified envelope. Extracellular modifications include degradation of the tight linkages between corneocytes by excreted proteases, which allows corneocyte shedding by desquamation, and stacking and modification of the excreted lipids that fill the intercellular spaces between corneocytes to provide a water-repellant barrier. In hard skin appendages such as hair and nails these tight intercorneocyte connections remain permanent. Various lines of evidence exist for a role of organelle disintegration, proteases, nucleases, and transglutaminases contributing to the actual cell death event. However, many mechanistic aspects of kearatinocyte death during cornification remain elusive. Importantly, it has recently become clear that keratinocytes activate anti-apoptotic and anti-necroptotic pathways to prevent premature cell death during terminal differentiation. This review gives an overview of the current concept of cornification as a mode of programmed cell death and the anti-cell death mechanisms in the epidermis that secure epidermal homeostasis. This article is part of a Special Section entitled: Cell Death Pathways. Guest Editors: Frank Madeo and Slaven Stekovic.

 

[Vixen]

What skin consultants? Treatments are not the same. Maybe they were in 1995 when we knew a lot less about the conditions.

I didn't say they were the same. I said they were grouped and treated similarly by skin specialists.

What skin consultants? The ones at University College Hospital in London, one of the foremost leading teaching hospitals in the UK, if not the world. Likewise St John's Hospital in Soho.

Only an ignoramus would claim psoriasis is the same as eczema. Stop wilfully putting words in my mouth.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I didn't say they were the same. I said they were grouped and treated similarly by skin specialists.

No they are not. How many citations do I need to post.

What skin consultants? The ones at University College Hospital in London, one of the foremost leading teaching hospitals in the UK, if not the world. Likewise St John's Hospital in Soho.

You posted one cite from 1995. What do you have from the above sources?

BTW, there's not a lot of daylight between treated similarly and treated the same.

I don't know why you keep digging your heels in here instead of reading the links I cited.

 

[Vixen]

No they are not. How many citations do I need to post.

You posted one cite from 1995. What do you have from the above sources?

BTW, there's not a lot of daylight between treated similarly and treated the same.

I don't know why you keep digging your heels in here instead of reading the links I cited.

<sigh> Some of us don't need google to get our education.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

<sigh> Some of us don't need google to get our education.

It's not about education, it's about discussing in good faith.

 

[Vixen]

It's not about education, it's about discussing in good faith.

Explain your post.

 

[Puppycow]

It's not about education, it's about discussing in good faith.

Explain your post.

Well, some might argue that if your objective in a discussion is to "show up" the other person rather than explain or persuade, that you are not discussing in good faith. I'm sure most of us have been guilty of this at some point though.

 

[quadraginta]

<sigh> Some of us don't need google to get our education.

That's the modern equivalent of "Some of us don't need libraries to get our education."

Every book in a library is not the most current gospel truth.

And yet, there is education to be found there.

Google is like a superset of libraries. Sure, there's bad information to be found there, but that by no means is equal to all of it being bad.

If you have a dispute with SG's references try disputing the validity of the references, instead of some failed ad hominem about the medium used to find them.

 

[Vixen]

That's the modern equivalent of "Some of us don't need libraries to get our education."

Every book in a library is not the most current gospel truth.

And yet, there is education to be found there.

Google is like a superset of libraries. Sure, there's bad information to be found there, but that by no means is equal to all of it being bad.

If you have a dispute with SG's references try disputing the validity of the references, instead of some failed ad hominem about the medium used to find them.

Do you really believe a reference to an obscure research paper on Google trumps all?

Take your own neighbourhood. Do you think what you have to tell me about it is not worth nearly as much as something I happened to Google in five seconds as proof I know better than you?

 

[quadraginta]

Do you really believe a reference to an obscure research paper on Google trumps all?

I don't know. You didn't address the research paper, only that it could be found using Google.

You can do that now, if you'd like to actually address the argument she made.

As well as explaining why you believe this particular research paper should be described as "obscure".

Take your own neighbourhood. Do you think what you have to tell me about it is not worth nearly as much as something I happened to Google in five seconds as proof I know better than you?

I don't know about "worth nearly as much". It could easily be different.

I'm not omniscient, even about my neighborhood.

I can certainly find out things about it that I didn't know using Google searches. I wouldn't be overwhelmed with shock or surprise if someone else could as well. Even you.

None of that addresses the content of what you might find. Finding it with Google is no different than finding it with some other tool.

I don't get the local newspaper delivered to my door. (Because it isn't very good anymore, among other reasons.) If you did, and you saw something in it which I didn't know about through the newspaper but learned about using Google to keep up with local news, would my knowledge of the same facts be diminished because I read it on The Raleigh N&O website using Google instead of the Durham Herald Sun at my doorstep?

What if I learned it by using Google to read it on the Durham Herald Sun's website? That's still using Google.

Attacking the search engine is not a meaningful way to dispute the content of something someone posted.

 

[Vixen]

I don't know. You didn't address the research paper, only that it could be found using Google.

You can do that now, if you'd like to actually address the argument she made.

As well as explaining why you believe this particular research paper should be described as "obscure".




I don't know about "worth nearly as much". It could easily be different.

I'm not omniscient, even about my neighborhood.

I can certainly find out things about it that I didn't know using Google searches. I wouldn't be overwhelmed with shock or surprise if someone else could as well. Even you.

None of that addresses the content of what you might find. Finding it with Google is no different than finding it with some other tool.

I don't get the local newspaper delivered to my door. (Because it isn't very good anymore, among other reasons.) If you did, and you saw something in it which I didn't know about through the newspaper but learned about using Google to keep up with local news, would my knowledge of the same facts be diminished because I read it on The Raleigh N&O website using Google instead of the Durham Herald Sun at my doorstep?

What if I learned it by using Google to read it on the Durham Herald Sun's website? That's still using Google.

Attacking the search engine is not a meaningful way to dispute the content of something someone posted.

I recently looked up a walk from A to B which I undertook recently. Google maps describes the walk as 'flat'. Does the fact Google says it's a flat walk mean that my personal experience of this walk actually being up a steep gradient (hey, it is part way up a mountainside!!!) is trumped by Google maps claiming it is 'flat'?