• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Trans Women are not Women

Status
Not open for further replies.
HansMustermann said:
The point, though, is that equality is a thing only when things are equal. You are still allowed to discriminate when it actually does make a difference.

It's even in the employment laws. It's called a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ) in the US, or bona fide occupational requirement (BFOR) in Canada, or genuine occupational qualification (GOQ) in the UK. The LGBT community can suc... err... look it up.

E.g., you can't prefer whites to blacks or viceversa to operate a crane, because that makes no difference to pulling the levers. You ARE however quite within your rights to only hire whites to play the role of Lincoln in a movie, or conversely to only consider black actors for the role of Mandela or Rosa Parks. Because the colour is an important part of that role, and does make a visible difference on film.

E.g., you can't discriminate by age when hiring an accountant, but you CAN if you're shooting porn or a high school drama.

It seems to me like if in sports the categories are based on the biological differences between biological men and biological women, then yes, it is the same thing. One can jolly well discriminate in that case, and idiots moaning about it being discrimination are just too stupid to be having that argument. Even if they happen to be LGBT.
Click to expand...

This
 
Belz... said:
Every. Single. *******. Post.

The conversation is about THE OUTLIERS already! Stop talking about people who will never compete anyway. The topic isn't about them.
Click to expand...

Like I said that's the only way he can square his circle.

"There's too many blue marbles in bowl. It's unfair that one type of marble is getting left out."
"Okay we'll add some red marbles. Okay the red marbles took up all the space and no there's no blue marbles anymore."
"Who cares? They are all marbles, it doesn't make a difference."
"But you just had us add more of one type of marbles in order to fix an imbalance. No you're saying the exact same thing in the other direction isn't an imbalance because you redefined the terms by removing the very subgroups the entire thing was based on."
"No I didn't. Who cares anyway there's millions of marbles in the world that were never going to be in the bowl, so I don't see why we should care."
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I said it makes no difference to the 99.9% of women who wouldn't have succeeded anyway because some women are bigger and stronger and fitter than them biologically.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't make a difference to YOU and you can't see beyond that. Again your entire argument has been a self centered "Well I don't see the problem, end of discussion."

And yet again it's doublespeak where "women" are one singular category in one breath but distinct "cis-women and trans-women" in the other.

If cis-women are supposed to just be perfectly happy watching a league of mostly trans-women compete because "Hey they are all women right, what's the difference?" the exact same argue nullifies your argument.

A lot of women are not going to be happy watching a "Women's Sport" which is dominated by biological men, regardless of their gender identity.

You can rant and rave, you can call them transphobes, you can scream until you are red the face but that won't change. And sports isn't civil rights or legal protection it doesn't work if people aren't interested in and invested in it.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I've never seen anyone discriminated against for a job because they would be too good at it and make the other employees look bad though.

And you know this nonsense also affects cis-women in sport who are accused of being men if they happen to look a bit muscley. That nonsense should be stopped as well.

I asked a question previously about a solid example of a transwoman footballer who is playing competitive but non-elite soccer in Scotland. Should she be stopped from participating? If so why?
Click to expand...

I have.

I'm a social worker and I used to do work with good will. They used to run a job program in some donation centres for those with disabilities.

Often people didn't know that this was the case with employment at a specific centre, and would apply, and be turned down. Reason being if we excepted people without disabilities then the people with would not be able to compete with them.
 
JihadJane said:
No need to insult women by calling them "cis". "Women" suffices.

And did you never hear of people being turned down for a job because they were over-qualified?
Click to expand...

I think the problem isn't even with being over-qualified. The genuine requirements for something can also be that you're "less" in some aspect.

E.g., some muscular 200 pound guy may be better qualified as a boxer, but we explicitly don't want him punching an 100 pounds minimumweight guy. The 100 pounds guy probably doesn't even have the skeleton density to resist a full force punch from the 200 pound guy.

E.g., being able to use your eyes definitely gives you an advantage in soccer, but disqualifies you from blind soccer. (It's a real sport, btw.)

But probably the best illustration in sport is simply the fact that we disallow doping. Taking steroids certainly makes one better at the "job" in most sports, but we disqualify people for it.

And more importantly for the topic: no amount of moaning about how one identifies as something else means the rest of us should waiver those requirements. I can identify as a blind guy all I want, they're not going to let me into a blind soccer team.
 
HansMustermann said:
And more importantly for the topic: no amount of moaning about how one identifies as something else means the rest of us should waiver those requirements. I can identify as a blind guy all I want, they're not going to let me into a blind soccer team.
Click to expand...

Just so you know "Trans-abled" people are a thing that exist so... don't hold your breath on that. That's gonna be a thing sooner or later. A person who "identifies" as disabled wanting to be on a... wheelchair basketball team or something is gonna happen any day now.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Just so you know "Trans-abled" people are a thing that exist so... don't hold your breath on that. That's gonna be a thing sooner or later. A person who "identifies" as disabled wanting to be on a... wheelchair basketball team or something is gonna happen any day now.
Click to expand...

If I identify as a billionnaire, is society obliged to give me my missing millions?
 
I think the more relevant scenario is: if a billionaire self-identifies as a poor man, should he stop paying taxes?
 
JoeMorgue said:
No it doesn't make a difference to YOU and you can't see beyond that.
Click to expand...

No it objectively makes no difference. As a matter of fact.

If a race of 9 feet tall basketball playing superhumans were teleported into the world tomorrow it would objectively make ZERO impact on my likelihood of playing in the NBA.

Pretending otherwise is just trying to create victims where none exist.
 
sadhatter said:
I have.

I'm a social worker and I used to do work with good will. They used to run a job program in some donation centres for those with disabilities.

Often people didn't know that this was the case with employment at a specific centre, and would apply, and be turned down. Reason being if we excepted people without disabilities then the people with would not be able to compete with them.
Click to expand...

I'm reading this and it seems like you aren't disabled but yet you were able to work in the good will that excluded able bodied people? I'm confused. Perhaps I am missing some information.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
If a race of 9 feet tall basketball playing superhumans were teleported into the world tomorrow it would objectively make ZERO impact on my likelihood of playing in the NBA.
Click to expand...

But it would affect the likelihood of people who are currently playing in the NBA for the love of Pete Sampras how is THAT YOU STILL DON'T GET THIS?

All the biological women competing in high and professional level sports right now, at this point in time, would have an almost zero chance of staying at that competitive level if biological men who identify as women started entering sports on a regular basis.

What combinations of words have to come out of my mouth to get you understand that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom