Mueller Investigation pt5

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Skeptic Ginger said:
It depends on one'e expectations whether they will be met.

BTW, that article reads like the typical GOP party line: collusion isn't a crime? We resolved that a year ago. If it wasn't the party line he would have referred to conspiracy and stop repeating the collusion nonsense.

If Mueller can tie Trump's actions such as lifting sanctions and encouraging favoring Russia in the Ukraine actions the US takes, showing policy reversals and Russian payoffs I don't think that is so far fetched.
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Actually, see Jimbob's list/timeline above.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I find it curious Trump never told Cohen directly what to do. It's like Cohen never was a true trusted insider.
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Yes and no. Cohen had to be trusted to do the things he did.

But it was a selective trust. I don't think Trump thought Cohen was very smart. And from what I've read, Trump was a bully and often mocked and belittled Cohen in front of others. It is like owning a pit bull that you mistreat. You always wonder in the back of your mind that maybe some day that dog might turn on you.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
That criminal mastermind is quite the straw man.

I think Trump is applying stuff he's used to from a long history of money laundering.
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Personally, I don't think Trump went to the Russian mob with his own plans : they came to Trump because he's a useful idiot they could get a cheap deal from. I doubt Trump had much clue about what was actually going on. Heck, the deals probably cost him money in the long term.
 
acbytesla said:
But it was a selective trust. I don't think Trump thought Cohen was very smart. And from what I've read, Trump was a bully and often mocked and belittled Cohen in front of others. It is like owning a pit bull that you mistreat. You always wonder in the back of your mind that maybe some day that dog might turn on you.
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Nothing quite says "loser" like getting savaged by your own dog.
 
CapelDodger said:
Personally, I don't think Trump went to the Russian mob with his own plans : they came to Trump because he's a useful idiot they could get a cheap deal from. I doubt Trump had much clue about what was actually going on. Heck, the deals probably cost him money in the long term.
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I think it's more like gravity. Trump just falls down to the lowest level that will accept him and his grifting ways
 
acbytesla said:
In his campaign you mean.

Do I think it's plausible that Trump had no idea what Senior advisors including his campaign manager Manafort, his deputy campaign manager Gates, his own son Don Jr. and long time business associate Roger Stone were doing? No, I do not. Especially when you consider that Trump in a speech the next day alluded to a surprise about Hillary and those emails. You may believe in clairvoyance, but I don't.
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It's also worth pointing out that everybody who has flipped - most recently Cohen less than a week ago - have said that Trump knows everything that goes on in his organisations. That nothing happens without his knowledge and approval.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It depends on one'e expectations whether they will be met.

BTW, that article reads like the typical GOP party line: collusion isn't a crime? We resolved that a year ago. If it wasn't the party line he would have referred to conspiracy and stop repeating the collusion nonsense.

If Mueller can tie Trump's actions such as lifting sanctions and encouraging favoring Russia in the Ukraine actions the US takes, showing policy reversals and Russian payoffs I don't think that is so far fetched.
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Mariotti is a Democrat, has written plenty of articles and tonnes on twitter that is critical of Trump, and is the co-host of a podcast that almost exclusively deals with Trump's crimes, lies, and policy decisions that suggest he's a foreign agent. He's also a former federal prosecutor who has won several high-profile cases, so he knows what he's talking about when it comes to legal matters.
 
Stacko said:
Melanie Melania is now a witness:

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Seems obvious what his thought process was based on what he said at the time. He figured (because he's dumber than a bag of hammers) that Republicans would be happy because the investigation would go away, and that Democrats would be happy because they were pissed at Comey for interfering in the campaign by announcing the reopening of the Clinton investigation a week before Election Day.

Hell the idiot's original stated reason for firing Comey was that he was unfair to Hillary. Nobody believed it at the time, but considering Cohen's testimony the other day that Trump never expected to win the election, maybe he actually was vindictively punishing Comey for helping him become president. (In addition to thinking it would stop the investigation into his own collusion and other crimes, of course).
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Mariotti is a Democrat, has written plenty of articles and tonnes on twitter that is critical of Trump, and is the co-host of a podcast that almost exclusively deals with Trump's crimes, lies, and policy decisions that suggest he's a foreign agent. He's also a former federal prosecutor who has won several high-profile cases, so he knows what he's talking about when it comes to legal matters.
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I said "reads like".

Given he's a Democrat that puts him in the Pelosi corner (at least her last stated position): impeachment is a bad approach.
 
acbytesla said:
Yes and no. Cohen had to be trusted to do the things he did.

But it was a selective trust. I don't think Trump thought Cohen was very smart. And from what I've read, Trump was a bully and often mocked and belittled Cohen in front of others. It is like owning a pit bull that you mistreat. You always wonder in the back of your mind that maybe some day that dog might turn on you.
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Selective as in Cohen was Trump's chump. Trump seems to have a lot of those.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I find it curious Trump never told Cohen directly what to do. It's like Cohen never was a true trusted insider.
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Ever heard of King Henry II of England, and Thomas Becket, the Archbishop of Canterbury?

After Henry II uttered the words "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?", four of his knights promptly travelled from Normandy to Canterbury and murdered Becket. This was probably the first historical recorded instance of political "plausible deniability".
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I said "reads like".
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You also said "If it wasn't the party line he would have referred to conspiracy and stop repeating the collusion nonsense."

Given he's a Democrat that puts him in the Pelosi corner (at least her last stated position): impeachment is a bad approach.
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Nope: https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...er-trump-obstruction-of-justice-russia-216532

Even if Mueller concludes that he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt in court that Trump was guilty of obstructing justice, I believe he will ultimately present the matter to Congress for potential impeachment instead. After all, according to the New York Times, former independent counsel Kenneth Starr possessed a legal memo concluding that he had the power to indict former President Bill Clinton but did not do so, ultimately choosing to present the matter to Congress. I think Mueller would likely do the same thing, because it’s the more prudential approach given that it’s an open legal question whether a sitting president can be indicted.
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You should try not to see this as a partisan issue, and if you want to understand what Mariotti's position is on any particular matter you'd do better to search for what he's said about it rather than making assumptions based on what "side" you imagine him to belong to.
 
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