Tony Blair...Do you love him?

[H3LL]

As I occasionally stumble into the maelstrom that is this forum (usually by accident), I have observed that for Americans, someone is usually prepared to support a major political personality, whichever 'side' they may be on and often with reasonable coherence.

I have not seen anyone here jump to support president PM Tony Blair (it may have happened...I just haven't seen it). If so, I would like to see it.

So, who here can honestly imagine greeting Tony, shaking his hand and saying "Well done. You've done a great job making the country better." and pat him on the back.

I know there are Americans here that could do a similar act with personalities from one side of their political spectrum but what about Unitedkingdomarianists, or anyone else for that matter, doing it for Tony?



I'd bring the opposition parties into the discussion if we had anything here that deserved the title.

Personally I would have to take the ID option of redefining several words to describe how I feel about Tony. Until then, I think he is scrofulatabulously edifactorianatedly shifteduquable.


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[Darat]

Overall I think he's undone a lot of the damage that Thatcher and Major did. His legacy will also leave us with a lot of new problems to sort out, but I expect that of all politicians - I mean if they actually solved all the problems we task them with they'd be out of a job.

 

[Ryokan]

So, who here can honestly imagine greeting Tony, shaking his hand and saying "Well done. You've done a great job making the country better." and pat him on the back.

I'm not a big fan of socialists (Blair is a Social Democrat), but I like Tony Blair.

A lot.

 

[Darat]

As an example of one of the problems he may leave us with that will need to be undone - 90 day detentions, don't care that "70% of the people" support it, they are wrong. I can just about accept that we may need a more flexible detention scheme then we currently have but a blanket 90 days, at the police's discretion!

 

[corplinx]

Tony Blair kept the United Kingdom at the "big table". The big table is the US, UK, Russia, Australia, and China. Another John Major could have resulted in the UK being seated at the milquetoast second table with Germany, France, and some other former world powers.

The West must keep a strong presence in the overall scheme of things. Could you imagine the balance of power in the world if China, Russia, and the US occupied the table alone?

Tony Blair will always be remembered in history for his resolve to stick it out in a time that wasn't ready just yet for everyone to lay down their arms but when most of the citizens wanted it to be so.

 

[Kerberos]

Tony Blair kept the United Kingdom at the "big table". The big table is the US, UK, Russia, Australia, and China. Another John Major could have resulted in the UK being seated at the milquetoast second table with Germany, France, and some other former world powers.

OK, you need to stop taking whatever you're on. You might argue that the UK has more influence than France or Germany, you wouldn't necessarilly be right, but it's a reasonable position. Australia though? Please! they've got a third the population of France, a fourth of Germany's and they're not richer. Having just short of 1000 men in Iraq doesn't make you a world power.

 

[corplinx]

OK, you need to stop taking whatever you're on. You might argue that the UK has more influence than France or Germany, you wouldn't necessarilly be right, but it's a reasonable position. Australia though? Please! they've got a third the population of France, a fourth of Germany's and they're not richer. Having just short of 1000 men in Iraq doesn't make you a world power.

I didnt say it wasn't a "high chair".

 

[Kerberos]

I didnt say it wasn't a "high chair".

If the chair doesn't entail any influence, then what good it is?

 

[geni]

Tony Blair kept the United Kingdom at the "big table". The big table is the US, UK, Russia, Australia, and China. Another John Major could have resulted in the UK being seated at the milquetoast second table with Germany, France, and some other former world powers.

On what basis? The Tories certianly supported the war.

The West must keep a strong presence in the overall scheme of things. Could you imagine the balance of power in the world if China, Russia, and the US occupied the table alone?

Yes but it won't happen. Power is shifting. It looks like it is shifting towards big populations. China, India.

Tony Blair will always be remembered in history for his resolve to stick it out in a time that wasn't ready just yet for everyone to lay down their arms but when most of the citizens wanted it to be so.

No.

 

[Soapy Sam]

On the plus side, he is clearly an able and hard working man.

However, I have never been convinced that he has an ounce of personal integrity. And I trust his loopy wife even less.

I would agree with the OP that if Her Majesty's loyal opposition has anything better to offer, they are hiding it well.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Overall I think he's undone a lot of the damage that Thatcher and Major did. His legacy will also leave us with a lot of new problems to sort out, but I expect that of all politicians - I mean if they actually solved all the problems we task them with they'd be out of a job.

Mmm.. like turning around one of the best economies we have ever had (thanks Ken) and ruining it- upcoming budget will likely have a £30billion deficit- or should that be more of a £50billion-£100billion deficit including notwork rail and all the PFIs? Higher taxes crippling growth, but money recklessly lavished on public services in the most wasteful way possible, we still have third rate services in spite of paying first class. Transport creaking, agriculture dying, fishing dead, manufacturing a walking corpse, service industries off-shored, consumers in unaffordable debt, homeowners mortgaged to their eyeballs- the only thing keeping us going is foreign companies buying British ones, but what happens when all the faimly jewels have been pawned? Not to mention that we are now embroiled in a disasterous occupation thats the result of wanton war-mongering power-happy decietful lying slimy scumbags.

 

[Darat]

Mmm.. like turning around one of the best economies we have ever had (thanks Ken) and ruining it- upcoming budget will likely have a £30billion deficit- or should that be more of a £50billion-£100billion deficit including notwork rail and all the PFIs?

Disagree, that would have happened under a Tory government as well. Most of what you point out as problems are actually areas where they haven't undone Tory polices.

Higher taxes crippling growth,

Evidence?

but money recklessly lavished on public services in the most wasteful way possible,

Evidence?

we still have third rate services in spite of paying first class.

Absolute rubbish. Services have improved tremendously under Labour, from waiting times in the NHS, to school results, to kids not actually sitting in classrooms with buckets on the floor to catch the drips from the leaking roof!

Transport creaking,

I agree the fact that Labour haven't undone the damage to the transport system caused by the Tories is bad and I think one area where they have consistently been too timid to turn back disastrous Tory polices.

agriculture dying,

I agree we should remove all the subsidies to the farmers. And it's good to see a British government actually telling the French and Germans quite clearly that CAP needs to be reformed.

fishing dead,

I agree - Labour should have stepped in and closed down 95% of the British fishing industry to allow the fishing stocks to recover and gone against the EU directives - but I can well imagine the outcry.

manufacturing a walking corpse,

Nothing to do with Labour - if British people would be happy to work for the wages Indians and Chinese are we could have a "competitive" manufacturing industry again. (Including all the problems that entails.) But I am glad that Labour stopped the massive subsidies that Thatcher was so found of for companies like the old British Leyland.

service industries off-shored,

Same as manufacturing.

consumers in unaffordable debt,

I think you can blame the government for a lot but as far as I know Labour hasn't made it compulsory to even have a credit card or to buy the latest LCD TV.

homeowners mortgaged to their eyeballs-

Er.. personal choice?

the only thing keeping us going is foreign companies buying British ones, but what happens when all the faimly jewels have been pawned?

Private companies are not "the family jewels". What were the family jewels are the things we (as in the public) owned that the Tories sold back to us! Such as British Telecom, British Steel, British Gas, the railway and so on. By the time Labour came to power the Tories has already sold the bloody family jewels!

Not to mention that we are now embroiled in a disasterous occupation thats the result of wanton war-mongering power-happy decietful lying slimy scumbags.

The disastrous occupation that the Tories also supported? And don’t forget something that is often brushed under the carpet by most opposition leaders – they have access to the same information as the government, and indeed often are briefed at the same time as members of the government with things like Privy Council briefings.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I do wonder why any criticism of one political faction immediately results in someone leaping to their defence while sniping back at the "opposition".

It's perfectly possible to think Tony is a self righteous control freak without espousing anything Michael Howard says.

 

[Darat]

Of course it is Soapy, but when comparing what the country is like today after the years of Labour government compared to what is was like after years of Tory government it's hard not to make comparisons. Apart from answering a criticism about the "occupation" I don't even mention current Tory policies (but to be totally honest that's probably more to do with the fact that I, like the Tories, have no idea what they are!)

 

[Kerberos]

I agree - Labour should have stepped in and closed down 95% of the British fishing industry to allow the fishing stocks to recover and gone against the EU directives - but I can well imagine the outcry.

Is that even possible? I mean do your fish stay within British waters or do they migrate, because if it's the latter as I suspect it is since terrotorial waters are quite small, you'd be doing nothing but handing the fish to Norwegian, Danish and French fishermen.

 

[Darat]

Is that even possible? I mean do your fish stay within British waters or do they migrate, because if it's the latter as I suspect it is since terrotorial waters are quite small, you'd be doing nothing but handing the fish to Norwegian, Danish and French fishermen.

You are right I did over simplify the matter but I do believe it is an example of where we should have put our national interests first.

 

[Kerberos]

You are right I did over simplify the matter but I do believe it is an example of where we should have put our national interests first.

Yes, but the point is whether you'd be capable of doing anything, I totally agree that there should be less fishing, but I don't see how grounding British only to have Danes overfish in their place, would serve the British national interest.

 

[Darat]

By reverting to older national fishing areas, in other words we'd break the EU directives about allowing other countries to fish in "our" waters. (Other countries in the EU have taken similar action in the past.)

 

[Kerberos]

By reverting to older national fishing areas, in other words we'd break the EU directives about allowing other countries to fish in "our" waters. (Other countries in the EU have taken similar action in the past.)

OK, I didn't know that there was sucha thing as national fishing areas, which I supose extends beyond national waters. They were probably removed before I was old enough to pay attention to them. Of course the problem still remains in a smaller form. The species of fish that range far would reguarly swim outside of your area and be fished by boats from other countries. I don't know enough about fish to acces the extend of the problem though.

 

[Darat]

Some background to my comments about the fishing: http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,835358,00.html