David Icke's Visa Cancelled

[zooterkin]

Yes, veiled Jewish conspiracy and holocaust denial.

Jewish community leaders have praised the decision to ban controversial conspiracy theorist and alleged Holocaust denier David Icke from entering Australia ahead of his scheduled speaking tour.

Yes; some Jewish organisations apparently find it hard to believe that Icke really believes in lizard overlords, and think it's code for a Jewish conspiracy or something (see the Jon Ronson book and TV programmes). I've yet to see evidence that he actually is anti-semitic.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Yes; some Jewish organisations apparently find it hard to believe that Icke really believes in lizard overlords, and think it's code for a Jewish conspiracy or something (see the Jon Ronson book and TV programmes). I've yet to see evidence that he actually is anti-semitic.

And the argument he himself makes for not being anti-semitic (while being very outspoken about the racist politics of the state of Israel) is quite profound. Contrary to most USA conspiracy theorists, Icke is not a religious nutter. What made him end up on that Wogan show in his turquoise tracksuit was a strong psychedelic trip on Ayahuasca, which he is not shy to talk about. And the consequence of this experience is that at the core of his nutty story, there is a profound truth: We are all the same consciousness, just experiencing the same reality through a different vehicle (body). From that perspective, racism is ludicrous and Icke is genuinely watching the world through this (correct) perspective.

 

[smartcooky]

Banning someone from saying something, or for saying something, doesn't get rid of the idea. Allowing someone to express an idea, and having a better argument, will.

It's one of the reasons Carl Sagan was against Holocaust denial laws. When you drive evil ideas underground they fester and grow but if you drag them out into the light and discuss them, bad ideas go away.

"Darkness and light make natural symbols for ignorance and insight because you can see in the light and are relatively blind in the dark. They make natural symbols for good and evil because good has no fear of discovery while evil thrives under cover of darkness."
- Dr. Donald T. Williams​

 

[Sideroxylon]

I am not welded on to the idea of Icke being denied entry to Australia.
Icke taps into ideas of a cabal of shadowy global figures running the world economy that have their genealogical history in Jewish conspiracies.
His ideas include elements of truth and goodness but in a framework of incoherent paranoid nonsense.
We have a problem today where many have given up on Enlightenment optimism for any kind of objective truth and have settled on a world where all is personal opinion.
Governments and social media companies are taking steps to block false ideas - both naively spread and posted in bad faith to manipulate other cultures.
If we tighten controls too much we impinge on freedoms of religious expression and the benefits that a diversity of thought can bring.
In this environment our ideas about censorship and freedom of speech are being tested.

 

[arthwollipot]

...cute prison island...

For the record, Australia hasn't been a prison island for over a hundred and fifty years. The last convict ship arrived in 1868, well before Federation.

 

[theprestige]

For the record, Australia hasn't been a prison island for over a hundred and fifty years. The last convict ship arrived in 1868, well before Federation.

Nowadays, Australia outsources its prison islands, to even worse hell holes.

Anyway, if it's not necessary to censor Icke's ideas, why is it necessary to ban him? What has Icke ever done to offend Australia, besides have ideas that aren't worth censoring?

Is he interfering with Australia's indigenous space launch capability or something?

 

[arthwollipot]

Nowadays, Australia outsources its prison islands, to even worse hell holes.

Can't disagree with that, though the situation is slightly different from British transportation.

Anyway, if it's not necessary to censor Icke's ideas, why is it necessary to ban him? What has Icke ever done to offend Australia, besides have ideas that aren't worth censoring?

Is he interfering with Australia's indigenous space launch capability or something?

I am not privy to the reasons behind the Minister's decision beyond what has already been reported.

 

[Norman Alexander]

So what? It's still censorship. Censorship is not just the complete banning of speech. It is also doing anything that makes it difficult for anyone to say what they want when they want, or compelling them to say things they do not agree with.

Icke isn't an Australian citizen. Did you know that? So what makes you think the censorship laws in his home country, or indeed any other, should be applied when it comes to him being in Australia?

 

[theprestige]

Icke isn't an Australian citizen. Did you know that? So what makes you think the censorship laws in his home country, or indeed any other, should be applied when it comes to him being in Australia?

I'm 100% in support of Australia's sovereign privilege to deny entry to anyone at any time, for any reason or even (in Icke's case) no reason at all.

Perhaps now our non-childish Ozzie friends will kindly STFU about America's own border control policy?

No?

I didn't think so. ******* hypocrites.

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm 100% in support of Australia's sovereign privilege to deny entry to anyone at any time, for any reason or even (in Icke's case) no reason at all.

Perhaps now our non-childish Ozzie friends will kindly STFU about America's own border control policy?

No?

I didn't think so. ******* hypocrites.

We are free to criticise any nation's border control policy as much as we like. Including our own. And we do and we will. Just because your border control policy is ****** doesn't mean that our own isn't. After all, remember who it was who gave the President the idea to lock people up? Yeah, it was us.

The President: Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

Prime Minister Turnbull: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people –

The President: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

You are worse than I am.

 

[sadhatter]

Would you welcome a speaker from ISIS setting up a tour in your country?

If this person has not committed acts such as murder, war crimes etc that governments are looking for them for, sure.

Then when people go to said engagements you now know a large number of people to avoid. And if the police set up near by they may very well catch some people they are looking for.

My plan leads to no ability to claim censorship, no hypocrisy in regards to the free exchange of ideas, and possibly a good location for police to find criminals.

Yours has no benefit beyond harming someone you dislike.

 

[qayak]

Icke isn't an Australian citizen. Did you know that? So what makes you think the censorship laws in his home country, or indeed any other, should be applied when it comes to him being in Australia?

They shouldn't. Australian laws should apply. Australia doesn't protect freedom of expression though which pretty much makes it a **** democracy.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I'm 100% in support of Australia's sovereign privilege to deny entry to anyone at any time, for any reason or even (in Icke's case) no reason at all.

Perhaps now our non-childish Ozzie friends will kindly STFU about America's own border control policy?

No?

I didn't think so. ******* hypocrites.

Um, I didn't actually say I agree with this particular decision by my (current bone-headed) government. In fact, if you read back over my posts you will see I have a very different take on this situation compared to most posters here.

Incidentally, nor is "commenting on US border issues" the same as "criticising and laughing at Trump's border policy". On the ground in Texas, etc., you have our total sympathy. In Washington, it is to laugh. But that is a derail.

 

[Norman Alexander]

They shouldn't. Australian laws should apply. Australia doesn't protect freedom of expression though which pretty much makes it a **** democracy.

Uh huh. Perhaps you might tell us what you have freedom to do that we don't. I'm interested to learn.

 

[Norman Alexander]

If this person has not committed acts such as murder, war crimes etc that governments are looking for them for, sure.

Then when people go to said engagements you now know a large number of people to avoid. And if the police set up near by they may very well catch some people they are looking for.

My plan leads to no ability to claim censorship, no hypocrisy in regards to the free exchange of ideas, and possibly a good location for police to find criminals.

Yours has no benefit beyond harming someone you dislike.

What harm has come to Icke as a result of his visa being denied?

 

[qayak]

Uh huh. Perhaps you might tell us what you have freedom to do that we don't. I'm interested to learn.

David Icke was allowed into Canada and the world didn't end. Australia needs to grow a set of balls. We had the freedom to hear David Icke speak.

 

[arthwollipot]

They shouldn't. Australian laws should apply. Australia doesn't protect freedom of expression though which pretty much makes it a **** democracy.

We don't have a Bill of Rights written into our Constitution, but that doesn't mean we don't protect freedom of expression.

 

[Norman Alexander]

David Icke was allowed into Canada and the world didn't end. Australia needs to grow a set of balls. We had the freedom to hear David Icke speak.

Um, once again for the slow of uptake...Icke is absolutely fine to phone his silliness in live to any video conference in Australia, 24x7, to anyone willing to pay to watch and hear him if they still want to charge for that. Zero censorship at all. That's ZERO. Full 110% freedom for him to witter away about his alien/lizard/antisemitic crap and for Australians to see and hear him. In Australia. In public. OK?

Just that our current government has decided he can't PERSONALLY cross the border into our country. Persona non grata.

I didn't say I agree with that decision either. I'm just explaining to you that the REAL issue for Icke is absolutely NOTHING to do with Australia censoring his ideas or speech. Because we haven't done that.

The REAL issue is Icke is having a bitch because we took away an opportunity for him to fleece a bunch of gullible marks of millions of dollars with a free holiday in the sun thrown in. It's about the MONEY for Icke. That is all it has ever been.

 

[psionl0]

We don't have a Bill of Rights written into our Constitution, but that doesn't mean we don't protect freedom of expression.

Actually we don't. Most states have overly broad <minority group> vilification laws that have the effect that the most innocuous remark can see somebody charged with some form of hate speech.

The only exception federally is that some time ago the high court ruled that because parliament is elected by the people, it can't restrict the people's right to speak about political matters ("implied" freedom of speech).

 

[arthwollipot]

Actually we don't. Most states have overly broad <minority group> vilification laws that have the effect that the most innocuous remark can see somebody charged with some form of hate speech.

The only exception federally is that some time ago the high court ruled that because parliament is elected by the people, it can't restrict the people's right to speak about political matters ("implied" freedom of speech).

No, in fact our rights are enshrined in legislation, and by our being signatories to several international treaties including the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.