Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

Thor 2 said:
No you missed my point.

I want to know if the spirits that talk to mediums, are spirits that have evolved from human spirits, or are they something different altogether?
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Or you might says human beings have evolved from spirits. According to occult theory we were spirits first, then became human for experience sake.
The spirits that come back to speak through mediums and teach us, are usually regarded as highly evolved souls. But they were human once.

I once heard the guide of Ursula Roberts say he used to be a prince and he had to keep coming back to teach us, because it was his karma for leading his people into battle.

But my own relatives have come back to give me messages, but they could not entrance a medium, only give them a message to relate to me.
 
Darat said:
And what about the porcine tapeworm?
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I know nothing about such horrible things as tapeworms. I don't even want to think about them. Edgar Allen Poe and Nietzsche both drove themselves mad thinking dark thoughts.
 
Take one step back from utter beliefs and restate that.

You saw Ursula appear to go into a trance and and channel some prince (often royalty) with a message of peace.

Another medium using simple statistics of death rates guessed you had a sibling. One that never grew up nor met you. (I had a stillborn older brother too)
Any news of such is "something you never knew" a and as he never matured anything he had to say is news to everyone.

The rest is the script of any Ancient Aliens show tipped to spiritualism.

Do yourself a favor, doubt the truly in-credible as not at all credible until somehow undoubtedly proven. Don't just dig in your heels to defend a wonderful hope.
Make them give you more than hope to heal yourself. You already can without them.
Madame Woo can't eat her tarot cards but she can use them to get money from people like you that need something to believe in. You need purple Martians to feel fulfillment, just hint it to her and ye shall receive.
Meanwhile she pays the rent using a tarot card and your cash.
 
Scorpion said:
I know nothing about such horrible things as tapeworms. I don't even want to think about them. Edgar Allen Poe and Nietzsche both drove themselves mad thinking dark thoughts.
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Then how do you know whether it is more “highly evolved “ or not than a human?
 
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8enotto said:
Take one step back from utter beliefs and restate that.

You saw Ursula appear to go into a trance and and channel some prince (often royalty) with a message of peace.

Another medium using simple statistics of death rates guessed you had a sibling. One that never grew up nor met you. (I had a stillborn older brother too)
Any news of such is "something you never knew" a and as he never matured anything he had to say is news to everyone.

The rest is the script of any Ancient Aliens show tipped to spiritualism.

Do yourself a favor, doubt the truly in-credible as not at all credible until somehow undoubtedly proven. Don't just dig in your heels to defend a wonderful hope.
Make them give you more than hope to heal yourself. You already can without them.
Madame Woo can't eat her tarot cards but she can use them to get money from people like you that need something to believe in. You need purple Martians to feel fulfillment, just hint it to her and ye shall receive.
Meanwhile she pays the rent using a tarot card and your cash.
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I admit I keep going on about a message I received from a dead brother I did not even know I had. Because it convinced me the medium was genuine.
She was not just guessing as she gave me his name.

But I had a lot of other convincing messages from different mediums over the years. I have mentioned them before on this thread. One was when a medium told me I had just done a blue and white painting, and I was not pleased with it. But she said the spirit world inspired me to do it.
How could she have guessed I did such a painting and was not satisfied with it?
I had not mentioned it to anyone.
I also had a message where the medium told me I would have more money if I did not buy so many LP records. How would she have known that?
I had many other messages over the years, and even if I caught out White Eagle telling a lie, I still think there is a spirit world.
 
Scorpion said:
I admit I keep going on about a message I received from a dead brother I did not even know I had. Because it convinced me the medium was genuine.
She was not just guessing as she gave me his name.
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As indeed she would if she had researched (or instructed someone to research) the BMD index, free at any library.

Scorpion said:
But I had a lot of other convincing messages from different mediums over the years. I have mentioned them before on this thread. One was when a medium told me I had just done a blue and white painting, and I was not pleased with it. But she said the spirit world inspired me to do it.
How could she have guessed I did such a painting and was not satisfied with it?
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Blue and white paint spots on your skin, probably too small for you to realise were there. And nobody is ever satisfied with their own work - whether painting or book or knitted jumper.
Scorpion said:
I had not mentioned it to anyone.
I also had a message where the medium told me I would have more money if I did not buy so many LP records. How would she have known that?
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Lol. She could have said "you would have more money if you did not buy so many anything and it would have been true. Vinyl was a common purchase then, and a better than evens guess.
Scorpion said:
I had many other messages over the years, and even if I caught out White Eagle telling a lie, I still think there is a spirit world.
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Jolly good. You carry on thinking it if it gives you comfort. But don't fall into the trap of thinking that anything you have reported hearing from the mediums that you have consulted is convincing, or that it is any different from the usual mix of cold and hot reading that these people use.
 
Scorpion said:
The theory is that our spirits were breathed out of the Godhead in large batches. But they could not function as pure spirits because they had no experience, so they/we began the long cycle of incarnations, on this and other planets.
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Thor 2 said:
No you missed my point.

I want to know if the spirits that talk to mediums, are spirits that have evolved from human spirits, or are they something different altogether?
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Scorpion said:
Or you might says human beings have evolved from spirits. According to occult theory we were spirits first, then became human for experience sake.
The spirits that come back to speak through mediums and teach us, are usually regarded as highly evolved souls. But they were human once.

I once heard the guide of Ursula Roberts say he used to be a prince and he had to keep coming back to teach us, because it was his karma for leading his people into battle.

But my own relatives have come back to give me messages, but they could not entrance a medium, only give them a message to relate to me.
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This is all most confusing.

First you say: "Spirits were breathed out of the Godhead in large batches. But they could not function as pure spirits because they had no experience."

So the spirits must have the experience of living and evolving to become highly evolved souls that can give us the benefit of their knowledge through mediums.

But then you tell us that perhaps humans have evolved from spirits.:confused:

You also talk of evil spirits. Where did they come from? Evolution gone wrong?
 
abaddon said:
Ya think? Frankly, the spiritual rules are simply a moveable feast. Find an inconsistency? Invent a new rule out of whole cloth. It's a modus operandi.
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Until I encounter someone that claims their imaginary friend has told them to pull their head out of their ass and straighten out their life I'm happy to remain a non-believer.
 
Agatha said:
Blue and white paint spots on your skin, probably too small for you to realise were there. And nobody is ever satisfied with their own work - whether painting or book or knitted jumper.
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Oh ! come on. You are reaching there. A superwoman medium who has microscope eyes concluding spots of paint mean I painted a picture.
I painted lots of pictures, not just blue and white ones, so could have had a coat of many colours. But I could just as well have been painting a house.
 
Thor 2 said:
You also talk of evil spirits. Where did they come from? Evolution gone wrong?
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For the word evil, you could substitute ' misguided' . Doing evil is another way of describing mistakes made by undeveloped souls.

The cycle of spiritual evolution over many lives can go down, as well as up.
As soon as a spirit incarnates and makes an imperfect choice the laws of karma kick in, and this can lead a soul further away from the light.
 
Even accepting the entire spiritualist reincarnation narrative at face value, does it make any sense as an educational system?

Imagine if we ran schools that way.

Every term, we'd erase all the students' memories of the previous term and start over.

The ones who got more answers wrong during the previous term would have to sit in the back, and not get any lunch.

They would also get beaten by the other students from time to time, to help them learn compassion. So would most of the other students, except usually less often.

The students would have to teach each other, from instructional manuals that, while usually vague, contradicted one another in the parts that were clear.

There would be knowledgeable teachers around, but off-site, only occasionally accessible by phone.

The teachers' answers would be limited to saying the same vague or contradictory things as the instructional manuals.

Only a few students would know the phone numbers, but there'd be nothing to prevent any student from pretending to call the teachers and then relaying answers that they'd actually made up themselves.

(Well, those students who did that would sit in the back and go hungry and be beaten more often in the next term. But they likely wouldn't know this, because their memories of all previous terms have been erased.)

Also, half the teachers reachable by phone would actually be false teachers, scheming to hold the class back.

But this will somehow make all the students wise eventually.

And anyhow, it's what they deserve.
 
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Scorpion said:
A superwoman medium who has microscope eyes concluding spots of paint mean I painted a picture.
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Uh . . .

Scorpion said:
I painted lots of pictures, . . .
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Right, so painting was one of your hobbies (and you had a nice record collection). For a young guy in the 1970s who's seeking the advice of mediums and other spiritual healing those would've been easy enough to guess just by looking at you. In fact, let's see how I do with three predictions about that younger you:

1) Your hair was fairly long and unkempt and you had some facial hair.
2) You occasionally wore bell-bottomed pants.
3) You had been to a concert in the 6 months prior.

How'd I do? Now imagine how much better someone who actually had practiced making such predictions could do.

Now imagine information she could have picked up about you from other folks, e.g., "Him? Yeah he's a good bloke. Artist. Got a wonderful music library, that one."

So then she starts peppering you with questions, comments, etc. You remember the ones she got "right" and forget the ones she got wrong. Any she got right would blow your mind and convince you of her spiritual abilities. That's really all it takes.
 
The Shrike said:
Uh . . .


Right, so painting was one of your hobbies (and you had a nice record collection). For a young guy in the 1970s who's seeking the advice of mediums and other spiritual healing those would've been easy enough to guess just by looking at you. In fact, let's see how I do with three predictions about that younger you:

1) Your hair was fairly long and unkempt and you had some facial hair.
2) You occasionally wore bell-bottomed pants.
3) You had been to a concert in the 6 months prior.

How'd I do? Now imagine how much better someone who actually had practiced making such predictions could do.

Now imagine information she could have picked up about you from other folks, e.g., "Him? Yeah he's a good bloke. Artist. Got a wonderful music library, that one."

So then she starts peppering you with questions, comments, etc. You remember the ones she got "right" and forget the ones she got wrong. Any she got right would blow your mind and convince you of her spiritual abilities. That's really all it takes.
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I did have long hair for a few years.
I never wore bell bottoms.
I don't remember how often I went to concerts, but I did go to a few.

But I still maintain I did not talk much about myself in the church, as I am not a chatty person. and a medium would have had a hard time getting any personal information. In any case why would they bother? I gave only a few shillings to the collection plate.
Also the mediums at church services only come to a church about once a year, the mediums are different every week, so they do not get to know you.
 
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Scorpion said:
For the word evil, you could substitute ' misguided' . Doing evil is another way of describing mistakes made by undeveloped souls.

The cycle of spiritual evolution over many lives can go down, as well as up.
As soon as a spirit incarnates and makes an imperfect choice the laws of karma kick in, and this can lead a soul further away from the light.
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So it might be best to stop with the reincarnation if things are going the wrong way?

I don't suppose you can see how silly this is getting.:boggled:
 
Scorpion said:
I did have long hair for a few years.
I never wore bell bottoms.
I don't remember how often I went to concerts, but I did go to a few.
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Not bad, right? I have zero training cold reading, I've never met you, and I just hit 66% accuracy.

Now imagine I'm speaking with you face to face and as soon as you say "no bell-bottoms" I repeat back to you something like "No, you're right they aren't bell-bottoms they're more like jeans or dungarees, or slacks, but with patches." I'm watching you for any kind of facial recognition that shows you're remembering something that fits what I'm saying. So I go on, and quickly. "I'm seeing red, or orange, not patches, but maybe rust and the pants are cordu--" And then you do the work for me by raising your eyebrows excitedly and saying "Corduroys! I had a pair of brown corduroys!" Before you can finish that sentence I reward you again with "That's right! You're right! They were brown corduroys."

See what just happened? The part you'd remember and justify to yourself belief in my abilities would be how I knew about your brown corduroy pants. But I didn't know about them. I threw the following at you until hitting on the one thing that stuck:
  1. bell-bottoms – no
  2. jeans – no
  3. slacks – too general, no
  4. patches – no
  5. red – no
  6. orange – no
  7. rust – waitaminute
  8. corduroy – corduroy!

So my success in guessing something so mundane and predictable as a pair of pants in your past would be remembered, but my failure to do that on 8 out of 9 actual guesses would not.
 
But Shrike, surely you're not saying that

that

that

sometimes mediums are DECEITFUL!

Oh dear, then we would never know when it was wrong-hearted spirits and just ordinary charlatinism! How could we maintain our lovely beliefs then!



Well, actually (Brits love to sat "actually," and so do I), we can go on believing quite easily in any silly **** **** we may happen to enjoy, and nasty horrid logic and (ew!) reason can go away and STAY away!

And so can I.
 
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