Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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RecoveringYuppy said:
??
No, I have no reason to think I'm Native American. I joined the chess club before I know how to play chess.
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If you had the same background and knowledge of it as Warren, and you were in the same position to make a choice, would you have made similar claims about your background?
 
Dr. Keith said:
Quite possibly.

Also, Rachel Dolezal's career depended more on her claimed race than Elizabeth Warren's career did.
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Ironically, Dolezal was laughed out of polite society for actually making the effort to live the life every day. Warren gets a pass because she checked the box but never bothered to walk the walk.
 
I agree with JoeMorgue, I hope that doesn't reduce his standing in these parts but I find is posts in this thread have been largely correct and reasonable.
 
theprestige said:
Ironically, Dolezal was laughed out of polite society for actually making the effort to live the life every day. Warren gets a pass because she checked the box but never bothered to walk the walk.
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I guess I don't see the irony. Dolezal was lying and was laughed at. Warren believed her family and acted accordingly. All evidence points to her never advancing her career with this claim. And yet decades later she is still having to deal with it. I don't see what "walking the walk" has to do with lying or not lying, nor do I think Warren has gotten a pass.
 
Brainster said:
I think the rationale has morphed over the last 40 years into a need for diversity. This is what most bugs me about the claims by Harvard that Warren's supposed Native American ancestry had no significance in the hiring decision. It should have had some positive impact.
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But they wouldn't have known about if she didn't tell them about it. All the records we have indicate she told them about it after getting hired when it would have no impact on hiring. And the records found about her college and law school applications show that she either identified on admission papers as white or declining minority status.
 
Elizabeth Warren claimed some Native American ancestry through family lore. This is not at all unusual in Oklahoma where it seems every white person whose family has lived here for 3 or more generations has some connection to an "ancient Cherokee princess."

Most of those claims are bogus (or at least unconfirmed) but many are not. There are thousands of ostensibly white people living white lives who really do have some Native American ancestry. Membership in many tribes is predicated on blood quantum, i.e., there is indeed a genetic component. Warren's family history apparently includes some affiliation with Delaware and/or Cherokee people. The CDIB for the Delaware Nation is equivalent to just one Native great grandparent; for the Eastern Band of Cherokee it only takes one great great grandparent to have been Native. In other words, not only did Warren's DNA analysis reveal that she in fact does have Native American ancestry, she might have enough to justify membership in one or both of the tribes her family lore suggested she had.

There is no question that Elizabeth Warren's claims of Native ancestry were supported by the DNA test results obtained.

Her gaffe – and I'm indeed disappointed in her for this – is in failing to use this experience to advance the cause of people who actually identify as Native American. A lot of those folks have truly been hurt by her claim. They're feeling yet more erasure and that Warren has used their suffering to advance her career. As absolutely generous and forgiving to her as I can characterize her actions, she's been myopic. Others would use words like grifting, callous, etc. She needs to – publicly – step back and let/invite some Native voices to explain why her actions on this were so misguided and hurtful. She needs to reproach her own behavior and seek ways with Native elders that she can dedicate her time in power to help the communities who've been hurt by her. If she fails to do that, her candidacy is toast (although that's only one reason to do this).
 
smartcooky said:
Oy Vey - Cherry-pick fail. You snipped out the parts that prove YOU wrong.

That is some kind of adorable next-level BS you have going on there


Fantastic... Hoo Boy even!
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Huh... not understanding math are we?

Cool cool cool.

Lol!
 
The Shrike said:
Elizabeth Warren claimed some Native American ancestry through family lore. This is not at all unusual in Oklahoma where it seems every white person whose family has lived here for 3 or more generations has some connection to an "ancient Cherokee princess."

Most of those claims are bogus (or at least unconfirmed) but many are not. There are thousands of ostensibly white people living white lives who really do have some Native American ancestry. Membership in many tribes is predicated on blood quantum, i.e., there is indeed a genetic component. Warren's family history apparently includes some affiliation with Delaware and/or Cherokee people. The CDIB for the Delaware Nation is equivalent to just one Native great grandparent; for the Eastern Band of Cherokee it only takes one great great grandparent to have been Native. In other words, not only did Warren's DNA analysis reveal that she in fact does have Native American ancestry, she might have enough to justify membership in one or both of the tribes her family lore suggested she had.

There is no question that Elizabeth Warren's claims of Native ancestry were supported by the DNA test results obtained.

Her gaffe – and I'm indeed disappointed in her for this – is in failing to use this experience to advance the cause of people who actually identify as Native American. A lot of those folks have truly been hurt by her claim. They're feeling yet more erasure and that Warren has used their suffering to advance her career. As absolutely generous and forgiving to her as I can characterize her actions, she's been myopic. Others would use words like grifting, callous, etc. She needs to – publicly – step back and let/invite some Native voices to explain why her actions on this were so misguided and hurtful. She needs to reproach her own behavior and seek ways with Native elders that she can dedicate her time in power to help the communities who've been hurt by her. If she fails to do that, her candidacy is toast (although that's only one reason to do this).
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What, exactly has she done? Ever since Brown started bringing it up and every rightwing media pundit has kept it aloft, she hasn't said much about it, and then she got a DNA test that seems to back her family up on its lore. What behavior IS there to reproach?
 
The Shrike said:
There is no question that Elizabeth Warren's claims of Native ancestry were supported by the DNA test results obtained.
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I don't think aligns with her claims at all. Her story suggested something more significant than 1/1024. And considering she apologized for the Harvard claims, she seems to agree.
 
The Big Dog said:
Huh... not understanding math are we?

Cool cool cool.

Lol!
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Oh, I'm understanding maths perfectly... you're still wrong. You are arguing The Shrike is only 1/1024 right (and therefore, by inference, 1023/1024 wrong). Geneology and ancestry do not work like that; its a binary situation not an arithmetical one; either you are entitled to claim a particular ancestry (=1) or you are not (=0). If you have a provable blood heritage or you meet the criteria as defined by the particular ethnic group or tribe in question, then that =1; you can claim ancestry of the group. If you do not, then that = 0 and you can't make that claim.

My mother was Swiss. At least one maternal grandparent was German, and another on the same side was Austrian.

My father was English. At least one paternal grandparent was Welsh and one great-grandparent was French.

This means I can truthfully claim English, Swiss, German, French, Austrian and Welsh ancestry.

In Warren's case, she has the DNA evidence that backs up her family's claim that she has a Native American ancestor. It doesn't matter whether the blood fraction is 1/1024, 1/512, 1/256, 1/128, 1/64, they are all greater than zero, which means they = 1 - she has a legitimate claim to Native American ancestry.
 
Your error, smartcooky, is in conflating ancestry with identity. We all have primitive primates as ancestors, but that doesn’t make us primitive primates.

Warren is not a Native American.
 
Ziggurat said:
Your error, smartcooky, is in conflating ancestry with identity.
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Your error, Ziggurat, is thinking that I am conflating ancestry with identity.

Ziggurat said:
We all have primitive primates as ancestors, but that doesn’t make us primitive primates.
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True, but utterly irrelevant to the debate. We are also direct descendants of LUCA (Also a fact but irrelevant)

Ziggurat said:
Warren is not a Native American.
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Warren is not a full blood Native American (there are in fact very few of them left), howoever that is irrelevant since I am not arguing that point.

She does, however, have Native American ancestry; proven, undeniable, scientific fact (and you, of all people, I would expect to understand the scientific truth of this)
 
The Shrike said:
Elizabeth Warren claimed some Native American ancestry through family lore. This is not at all unusual in Oklahoma where it seems every white person whose family has lived here for 3 or more generations has some connection to an "ancient Cherokee princess."

Most of those claims are bogus (or at least unconfirmed) but many are not. There are thousands of ostensibly white people living white lives who really do have some Native American ancestry. Membership in many tribes is predicated on blood quantum, i.e., there is indeed a genetic component. Warren's family history apparently includes some affiliation with Delaware and/or Cherokee people. The CDIB for the Delaware Nation is equivalent to just one Native great grandparent; for the Eastern Band of Cherokee it only takes one great great grandparent to have been Native. In other words, not only did Warren's DNA analysis reveal that she in fact does have Native American ancestry, she might have enough to justify membership in one or both of the tribes her family lore suggested she had.

There is no question that Elizabeth Warren's claims of Native ancestry were supported by the DNA test results obtained.

Her gaffe – and I'm indeed disappointed in her for this – is in failing to use this experience to advance the cause of people who actually identify as Native American. A lot of those folks have truly been hurt by her claim. They're feeling yet more erasure and that Warren has used their suffering to advance her career. As absolutely generous and forgiving to her as I can characterize her actions, she's been myopic. Others would use words like grifting, callous, etc. She needs to – publicly – step back and let/invite some Native voices to explain why her actions on this were so misguided and hurtful. She needs to reproach her own behavior and seek ways with Native elders that she can dedicate her time in power to help the communities who've been hurt by her. If she fails to do that, her candidacy is toast (although that's only one reason to do this).
Click to expand...

Try and think of the long game.
 
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