horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett

[theprestige]

In that case I reconsider. Bill Cosby never molested any women, Brian Dennehy never lied about serving five years in Vietnam, Mel Gibson never went off on an anti-Semitic tirade to a cop, because I can't imagine why they would do it. Ergo, they didn't.

Why would Kevin Spacey assault his co-workers? He has so much to lose!

 

[baron]

OTOH, the risk of the story falling apart is not zero and the consequences would be devastating to his career.

I doubt it. All the luvvies would crowd round him and coo about how OK, he might not have been actually attacked, but the fact he was forced by the toxic, racist atmosphere of the US to make up something like this is a sad indictment of society, and lo and behold he'll become the victim all over again. As for his viewers, they wouldn't give a damn, they don't care if their favourite celebrity eats babies, they're still going to watch TV.

 

[baron]

Why would Kevin Spacey assault his co-workers? He has so much to lose!

Yep, looks like he's innocent too. Abandon the trial!

 

[The Big Dog]

Did Smollett go home first, and then go to the friend's apartment?

Nope, they have video on him from the Subway straight to his friends apartment.

Except for sixty seconds.

Which we skeptics know is MAGA COUNTRY TIME on the lower level streets in Chicago!

 

[William Parcher]

So that's why he bought the clothesline? When did he buy the clothesline?

It might require a search warrant(s) to investigate the clothesline purchase. Same for the phone. That would probably require a switch to considering Smollett to be a crime suspect. The cops don't seem to be there.

ETA: If you were planning on mugging someone a new clothesline would be the better option since there's less chance of contaminating it with your DNA etc.

If I were a master criminal I'd want a used clothesline that I found somewhere which would have the DNA of other people who are not me.

 

[LTC8K6]

Nope, they have video on him from the Subway straight to his friends apartment.

Except for sixty seconds.

Which we skeptics know is MAGA COUNTRY TIME on the lower level streets in Chicago!

If that's the case, then the time frame for the attack seems to be pretty narrow.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Which one? He's made lots of comments above.

The one where he considered that perhaps Smollett didn't want to get the police involved.

I don't live in a "crazy culture of identity politics". I don't live somewhere where it is "common for people to fake these kinds of incidents". So I haven't a clue as to any such person's motivation, or even if such people really exist.

They do exist. Lots of them. The fact that you claim not to know this really makes me wonder about your sincerity in asking these questions.

Can you point me to any successful people in the public eye who have faked something of this nature? Someone with the same balance of what's to be gained against what's to be lost as this actor?

Not off the top of my head. But then again, I don't think these questions are very relevant.

A few things stand out to me as suspicious in this case. The noose that was not removed, the MAGA yelling, the lack of corroborating evidence, and a few other things. I'm still open to the possibility that it happened as Smollett described, I'm just starting to think it is unlikely.

 

[The Big Dog]

Trump says its horrible, just the worst, and the solution is to build a wall.

"skeptics" here: Trump says it happened!

Real Skeptics, fall off chairs laughing

 

[MikeG]

My guess would be attention.......

The guy plays in front of packed audiences every night in a massive hit theatre production. He goes to premiers, galas, award ceremonies, and other red carpet events. The paparazzi follow him. And that's saying nothing about his social media profile (of which I know nothing). How much more attention do you think he wants? People in his position generally crave less attention, not more.

 

[Mumbles]

Why wouldn’t he turn over the phone to police? Or if not the phone, a printout of calls during the time period which is easily found on your phone company’s web site?

I simply can’t imagine why he wouldn’t. Unless of course...there was no manager call.

What am I missing?

It's a celebrity's phone - usually full of the numbers of other celebrities, all of whom will assume that their numbers are now public (especially if given to some group like the Chicago PD), and that they have to get new numbers, find out what everyone else's new number is again, etc. - and who may blame him for the problem.

Thought that one would be obvious...

 

[baron]

The guy plays in front of packed audiences every night in a massive hit theatre production. He goes to premiers, galas, award ceremonies, and other red carpet events. The paparazzi follow him. And that's saying nothing about his social media profile (of which I know nothing). How much more attention do you think he wants? People in his position generally crave less attention, not more.

This is entertainment in itself. Encore! Encore!

 

[MikeG]

.......They do exist. Lots of them. The fact that you claim not to know this really makes me wonder about your sincerity in asking these questions........

They might exist in your culture, but not in mine. I don't take any interest in your culture, and most certainly don't follow its news stories. Why should I? Do you know what is going on at the yacht clubs of East Anglia? No? Why would anyone expect you to?

 

[pharphis]

I don't treat extraordinary stories equally, though.

The burden of proof for an extraordinary story is on the person telling the story, as it should be.

I found the story extraordinary the moment I heard of it.

If the bleach and the noose were left out, it would have been less extraordinary to me.
Back to sleuthing.

According to Google maps, it seems to be at most a 5 minute walk from the Subway store to the apartment block. So there's apparently not a lot of time left between the Subway video cams and the released video footage of his arrival at his building.

EDIT: it's still not clear where Smollett walked to first, after leaving the Subway store.

This is why I was very doubtful. It sounded like a caricature of a hatecrime. that doesn't make it impossible but it sounds just so outlandish to me, and I've heard about a lot of hoaxes in recent years so despite "nothing to gain/plenty to lose" generally applying it seems some people are insane enough to act on these ideas.

We'll see in a couple of days/weeks I guess

 

[The Big Dog]

It's a celebrity's phone - usually full of the numbers of other celebrities, all of whom will assume that their numbers are now public (especially if given to some group like the Chicago PD), and that they have to get new numbers, find out what everyone else's new number is again, etc. - and who may blame him for the problem.

Thought that one would be obvious...

LOLZ! Now that was funny!

I won't show you my phone because I am a celebrity.

Would have totally thought it was obvious, just like all the MAGA hats in MAGA country, a/k/a Chicago

 

[Ziggurat]

The guy plays in front of packed audiences every night in a massive hit theatre production. He goes to premiers, galas, award ceremonies, and other red carpet events. The paparazzi follow him. And that's saying nothing about his social media profile (of which I know nothing). How much more attention do you think he wants? People in his position generally crave less attention, not more.

You say that like all forms of attention are equal. But they aren't.

 

[mgidm86]

I'm not seeing scepticism in this at all. When I see critical thinking applied in both directions equally (ie scepticism of the story, and scepticism of the dreamt-up scenarios being peddled here) then I'll accept a claim of scepticism. I'm not seeing that at all. I am seeing nothing but conspiracy-mongering, unfettered by any semblance of critical thinking.

I ask gain, for the umpteenth time, what could he possibly have had to gain, and what has he got to lose? When that is properly analysed, and brought into the equation every time another out-of-thin-air theory is aired, then, and only then, will the conspiracy mongers here have any claim to critical thinking.

I'll jump in. What does he have to gain...

Maybe he was lying about who attacked him or why. I don't doubt he was attacked. Maybe he started it. Maybe it was something he'd rather not reveal, maybe he was someplace he doesn't want people to know about. Maybe the rope was part of a sex game, picked up the wrong guy at a bar and doesn't want to admit it. It could explain some of the secrecy. That is a short list of possible reasons to lie.

People have reasons to lie, and celebrities certainly are not more rational than non-celebrities.

What did the guy have to gain who wrote "FAG" on his own cake and blamed it on the store he bought it from?

A woman says she saw a man standing near the entrance to the building at 12:30 am. She described his clothing in great detail - blue hoodie, rope maybe hanging out under his coat, unshaven, light colored jeans, high pants so she could see gray socks. Dress shoes(?). And he was white. She says a second man was waiting nearby.

Let's say she's the most observant person in Chicago, or maybe she's an ex cop and remembers these details. Did these guys stand around in -20 degree weather for an hour or more waiting to attack? Risking death waiting outside in below freezing temperature - in a hoodie? And they didn't really even hurt the guy?

Two white guys just hanging out after midnight in -20 weather waiting to jump a gay black actor in Chicago just to toss a rope on him. Okay. It could be true though.

I think she saw these men and I don't think they are the attackers. Yet she says she saw one of them with rope? I don't know man that sounds way too good to be true. It could be true though.

But isn't there video of the victim walking somewhere with the rope already around his neck and road salt on his clothes? That would tell me that it probably was not the two men she said were waiting outside his building since he apparently was attacked elsewhere.

It's possible they left to go find the victim I suppose. Doesn't seem likely. It doesn't make sense to me. Why would they wait at his building, then go attack him elsewhere? It wasn't them.

And if they set out to attack this particular guy after waiting in -20 degree weather in the middle of the night, it seems like they'd do more than scratch his face, drape a rope around him, splash some bleach and run away.

They may very well have done that, but it seems unlikely.

Maybe the victim tried to steal someones laundry off a clothesline, tripped on a bottle of bleach and almost hung himself on the clothesline in the process?

It is his own actions and statements that are raising doubt.

My guess - he doesn't want to admit where he was attacked, why, or by whom because it is either very embarrassing or he caused the problem to begin with.

 

[MikeG]

I don't treat extraordinary stories equally, though.

The burden of proof for an extraordinary story is on the person telling the story, as it should be...........

What on earth is extraordinary about a lone black man being mugged by white guys on the streets of urban America? His producer said "Just another ******* day in America".*

*And before some trigger happy mod jumps on that, that isn't an attempt to get around the censor. That is a quote.

Posters are reminded that they are responsible for all material they post here. Even in quoted material.

Posted By: kmortis

 

[Whip]

TRump thinks the attack really happened.
Trump is a guy whose word I would take for nothing, but that he thinks it's true is probably causing some sputtering among some people here.
I repeat: The "whole think is fake" is mainly politicially motivated conspiracy theory mongering masquerading as critical thinking. Something we have seen auite a bit of.

this is much more of a conspiracy theory than anything discussed in this thread. just as much as 'maga country' so it must have happened. right?

 

[The Big Dog]

They might exist in your culture, but not in mine. I don't take any interest in your culture, and most certainly don't follow its news stories. Why should I? Do you know what is going on at the yacht clubs of East Anglia? No? Why would anyone expect you to?

I can see the alleged location this took place at from my office window. the cops who are wasting their time chasing tape on this idiotic fable are the same ones who should be patrolling this neighborhood instead.

(fortunately it is still cold as **** here, so the likelihood of kids swarming the red line will not happen until saturday)

 

[Elagabalus]

It might require a search warrant(s) to investigate the clothesline purchase. Same for the phone. That would probably require a switch to considering Smollett to be a crime suspect. The cops don't seem to be there.


If I were a master criminal I'd want a used clothesline that I found somewhere which would have the DNA of other people who are not me.

And you'd probably wear your nice and comfy pair of jeans to a bank robbery instead of buying and wearing a brand new pair for "heist" day. Just not comfortable enough!

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1997/jul/11/fbi-expert-says-suspects-jeans-worn-by-robber/