Is Hugo Chavez making cheap oil available?

epepke

Philosopher
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Messages
9,264
OK, a while back we all heard about how Hugo Chavez was going to make lots of cheap heating oil available to the poor via Citgo. Democracy Now! urged all its listeners to buy gas only at Citgo.

It's November now, and it's getting cold, even in Florida. It's tank-filling-up-season. Where's the oil?

In similar news, the BBC reported that an inquiry into Jean Charles de Menezes has been adjourned until 23 February.
 
My understanding is that the program was supposed to start on a trial basis in immigrant neighborhoods of Chicago and Detroit.
 
My understanding is that the program was supposed to start on a trial basis in immigrant neighborhoods of Chicago and Detroit.

From Democracy Now!:

Hugo Chavez said:
And the pilot project will be starting in Chicago we are already operating in Chicago. Well let’s hope that there’s not going to be any obstacle by the government opposed to this project being implemented, but we will be working in those poor populations. We have some allies, local partners and we have a number of communities, and we are going to donate some heating oil, because the winter is close, and for the school transportation to school, for the Mexican neighborhood which is the largest in Chicago, La Villita, is the name of this neighborhood with close to 900,000 inhabitants, and so there are other neighborhoods with Hispanics and Latinos. October, the 14th we’re going to start with these pilot projects with small communities and schools, but there are other pilot projects that will start in November in Boston, and here in New York.

I think we already had October 14th. I distinctly remember that. Of course, the fact that I don't smoke dope may have something to do with it.

I note the "obstacle by the government" out, so maybe the Evil Bush-Loving Ultraconservative Press might not have reported on how Citgo was brought to its knees by government obstacles, but do you think the Democracy Now! people could have taken a break from the bong long enough for an update?
 
OK, a while back we all heard about how Hugo Chavez was going to make lots of cheap heating oil available to the poor via Citgo. Democracy Now! urged all its listeners to buy gas only at Citgo.

It's November now, and it's getting cold, even in Florida. It's tank-filling-up-season. Where's the oil?

In similar news, the BBC reported that an inquiry into Jean Charles de Menezes has been adjourned until 23 February.


What does Jean Charles de Menezes - a Brazilian, killed by the British police as a suspect of terrorrism - has to do with Hugo Chavez/Venezuela/oil?
 
La Villita, is the name of this neighborhood with close to 900,000 inhabitants
Little Village now has 900,000 inhabitants?! :jaw-dropp Not even close, even if you drop a zero.

But if there is cheap gas there, I'll be there! Won't hold my breath though.
 
Here you go:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/west/chi-0510140302oct14,1,6630504.story

Maybe you should spend less time inventing viewpoints and google it yourself next time.
From your link:
Now Venezuela wants to put smiles on the faces of poor Chicagoans by offering them cut-rate heating oil to combat skyrocketing prices.
Too bad not a single household in Chicago uses heating oil. These people don't know a thing about Chicago.
 
Read the rest of the article.

Alvarez said that, because Illinois relies so heavily on natural gas, Venezuela officials might consider swapping heating oil for natural gas. Or Venezuela might offer cheap diesel fuel for school buses and vehicles operated by nonprofit groups. Venezuelan officials also are working with Rainbow/PUSH.
 
the article said:
Venezuela officials might consider swapping heating oil for natural gas. Or Venezuela might offer cheap diesel fuel for school buses and vehicles operated by nonprofit groups.
So as of now, the answer to the question asked in the title of this thread is...
 
Read the rest of the article.
I saw that, but exactly how do they pull that off? Gas is piped into homes here, and People's Gas has a monopoly in the city (maybe NI Gas has a small chunk, I don't know). You can't charge one person one rate for NG and another person a different rate. The Citizens Utility Board would have a field day w/ that one!

But if they do I'm putting the gas bill in my Mexican girlfriends name... :cool:
 
So as of now, the answer to the question asked in the title of this thread is...
The answer seems to be, "Yes." The answer to the question of whether or not that's going to be useful to poor people in the area is, "Not determined as of October 14th."

WildCat said:
I saw that, but exactly how do they pull that off? Gas is piped into homes here, and People's Gas has a monopoly in the city (maybe NI Gas has a small chunk, I don't know). You can't charge one person one rate for NG and another person a different rate. The Citizens Utility Board would have a field day w/ that one!
I'm sure they could make a deal with People's Gas to purchase or trade for vouchers for natural gas usage and distribute them as they see fit, couldn't they?
 
I'm sure they could make a deal with People's Gas to purchase or trade for vouchers for natural gas usage and distribute them as they see fit, couldn't they?
Not if they're going to use race as a basis, I don't see how that could be legal.
 
Not if they're going to use race as a basis, I don't see how that could be legal.
Where on Earth did you get the idea that they'll be using race as a basis for distributing the heating oil (or natural gas)?
 
Here you go:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/west/chi-0510140302oct14,1,6630504.story

Maybe you should spend less time inventing viewpoints and google it yourself next time.

Ah, thank you! I did do a Google search but didn't see that news story.

But let's look at what it says, shall we?

Now Venezuela wants to put smiles on the faces of poor Chicagoans by offering them cut-rate heating oil to combat skyrocketing prices.

So, on October 14, the date when it was actually supposed to start, he's now saying what he wants to do. And also

Alvarez said that, because Illinois relies so heavily on natural gas, Venezuela officials might consider swapping heating oil for natural gas. Or Venezuela might offer cheap diesel fuel for school buses and vehicles operated by nonprofit groups. Venezuelan officials also are working with Rainbow/PUSH.

So now Venezuela officials might consider something. (I can't even figure out what the heating oil/natural gas "swap" means, but the diesel fuel for nonprofit groups sounds good, even though it has nothing to do with what was originally offered.) He said it again, and who could possibly expect more than that? I, for one.

Of course, it's been pointed out that Chicago is one place where heating oil isn't needed. Perhaps setting Chicago aside for the "pilot project" was stupid, but then again, perhaps it was very clever.

Since you're so excellent at searching Google, perhaps you could find a newspaper story about how Citgo, under the direction of Chavez, has actually provided some substantial amount of actual heating oil at a discount to at least one poor family. If you do so, I will be delighted. If you can find such a story with a date before I wrote this OP, you can insult my Google skills and my presumption and invention of opinions all you like, and I'll even agree and apologize. But you have to understand, and I will try to explain: I'm talking about real oil here, the stuff that feels slimy when you touch it. Not just words and promises that sound slimy when I hear them. Physical stuff that goes into a fire and makes hear.

I want to be extremely clear about this. When the story broke, I was skeptical. See, I think politicians lie, and just because Chavez hates the US doesn't mean that he's honorable. I didn't think that the oil was going to materialize. I think it was political grandstanding. Because, if you can convince people to do a "buycott" with just words, why bother actually delivering? I wrote about this on this forum, and people told me that I was being unfair or cynical or something and not giving Chavez a chance.

So now he's had a chance plus three weeks, and so I ask. Where's the damn oil?
 
What does Jean Charles de Menezes - a Brazilian, killed by the British police as a suspect of terrorrism - has to do with Hugo Chavez/Venezuela/oil?

sigh...

It's another news story such that, when it broke, gullible people assured us that it would be dealt with quickly, and everything would be peachy keen and all those promises were valid. And now (surprise!) it looks like a conclusion is not going to happen until way later than we were sanctimoniously told, if ever. The inquest isn't even going to start until near the end of February. The BBC did not report a year, but I'll expend some of the quarter dram of trust I still have for the media and various governments to assume that it will be in 2006. By which time, most people won't care, and I'll go so far as to suppose that this is likely the point.

Is any of this getting through? As far as I can tell, skepticism, while strongly discouraged, is still permitted on this forum.
 
sigh...

It's another news story such that, when it broke, gullible people assured us that it would be dealt with quickly, and everything would be peachy keen and all those promises were valid. And now (surprise!) it looks like a conclusion is not going to happen until way later than we were sanctimoniously told, if ever. The inquest isn't even going to start until near the end of February. The BBC did not report a year, but I'll expend some of the quarter dram of trust I still have for the media and various governments to assume that it will be in 2006. By which time, most people won't care, and I'll go so far as to suppose that this is likely the point.

Still, how does any of that relates to Hugo Chavez, Venezuela and its promises of oil? Because if the connection you're making from one case to another is time, or lost deadlines, then the OP did not make it clear at all, and, anyway, the connection remains tenuous at best.

Is any of this getting through? As far as I can tell, skepticism, while strongly discouraged, is still permitted on this forum.

Are you talking to me? I hope not, as your grandstanding is complete out of place here.
 
Still, how does any of that relates to Hugo Chavez, Venezuela and its promises of oil? Because if the connection you're making from one case to another is time, or lost deadlines, then the OP did not make it clear at all, and, anyway, the connection remains tenuous at best.

I'm making it clear now. It's called a discussion. Do you understand it yet, or are you just going to wave your arms and tell me that I'm "grandstanding"?
 
You started a thread about two completely different subjects. When asked what is the link between the two, because it most obviously was not clear, you answer with a patronizing tone. You could have answered my question objectively, yet you chose to add hostility and arrogance to it.

If you want a discussion, lay the grounds of one first.
 
You started a thread about two completely different subjects. When asked what is the link between the two, because it most obviously was not clear, you answer with a patronizing tone. You could have answered my question objectively, yet you chose to add hostility and arrogance to it.

Yes, I could have been more pleasant. What do you want me to say? I'm human. Yes, I'm arrogant, because as far as I've been able to tell, I was right about Chavez' promises' being empty.

Look. It's inherently arrogant to say "I told you so," and this is exactly what I'm saying.

But I've explained the connection as it exists in my brain. Do you get it yet, or don't you? It's a simple question.
 

Back
Top Bottom