Mueller Investigation pt4

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The Great Zaganza said:
There IS no due process when it comes to criminally investigating a sitting President. No one looking at the Mueller probe so far doubts that Trump would already have been indicted if he wasn't POTUS.
So the argument of innocent until proven guilty doesn't work here, since we can't even get the guy to sit down for an interview.
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No one actually knows if a siting President can be indited because no one has actually done it to find out. It does seem strange that it is possible for a person to be above the law in the US, regardless of their position.
 
PhantomWolf said:
No one actually knows if a siting President can be indited because no one has actually done it to find out. It does seem strange that it is possible for a person to be above the law in the US, regardless of their position.
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Nixon didn't think so.
 
jeremyp, I think you're looking at a win/win for your argument about us having to be careful that we don't claim he's guilty of things he hasn't been charged or indicted for.

Mueller won't indict. I'm pretty sure he's on record somewhere as saying that a sitting president cannot be indicted. So he can lay out four hundred charges and not indict and the interference runners will be claiming (as they back the Mayflower van into the East Wing to move all of Trump's crystal gilded candelabras out in 2020) "bu... bu... Witch Hunt! He was never charged with anything!"

And if the House moves to impeach it'll be either for street cred for some backbenchers who promised their angry constituencies that they would, or as a gesture just to annoy His Royal Toddlerness. They know the Senate won't try him. It'd all be for show. And the Trump interference runners would change from "He was never charged with anything!" to "Yeah, and a he was found innocent, the most innocent person in the history of the country." (That's a quote that's already prepared by John Barron.)
 
The goalposts will never stop moving. Eventually it's going to be, "Well yes, he's in prison, but his appeal is pending!"
 
Foolmewunz said:
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Mueller won't indict. I'm pretty sure he's on record somewhere as saying that a sitting president cannot be indicted.
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It is a Justice Dept. opinion that that the President can't be indicted, and predictions are that Mueller would abide by it. But it's not a law. Mueller could indict Trump if he wanted.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/02/trump-russia-indictment-mueller-probe-384969

And if the House moves to impeach it'll be either for street cred for some backbenchers who promised their angry constituencies that they would, or as a gesture just to annoy His Royal Toddlerness. They know the Senate won't try him.
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If the House impeaches him, the Senate would have to try him, but it would be very unlikely to convict him. But a House investigation leading to impeachment would expose and focus attention on all of Trump's misconduct, and would force Republican Senators -- particularly the ones up for re-election in 2020 -- to vote for or against him, which would certainly have an impact on the election.
 
3point14 said:
I don't think it's possible. Those that support him do so now in spite of all the evidence he's entirely unsuitable and up to his eyes in Russian money.
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That's because being 'entirely unsuitable' and 'up to his eyes in Russian money' just aren't that important to them.

I don't believe that there is any evidence that can be presented or anything that Trump could say that would cause those who still support him to change their minds.
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Plenty of things could change their minds - if those things destroyed the real reasons they support Trump.

But so long as he still...

gives them tax cuts (the rich, and those who aspire to be),
keeps out brown people (racists),
treats women badly (misogynists),
is the king prophesied in the Bible (evangelicals),
stacks the court with conservative judges (anti-choicers),
and has an 'R' next to his name (99% of republican voters),

...they will overlook the other stuff.
 
Aridas said:
Immediately? Or could it be... delayed? Until, say, after the 2020 election. Because of entirely made up justifications. Like McConnell did to Garland.
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I dunno. But I suspect it would be hard for the Senate to ignore the "he's impeached!" note sitting in the inbox.
 
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Bob001 said:
It is a Justice Dept. opinion that that the President can't be indicted, and predictions are that Mueller would abide by it. But it's not a law. Mueller could indict Trump if he wanted.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/02/trump-russia-indictment-mueller-probe-384969



If the House impeaches him, the Senate would have to try him, but it would be very unlikely to convict him. But a House investigation leading to impeachment would expose and focus attention on all of Trump's misconduct, and would force Republican Senators -- particularly the ones up for re-election in 2020 -- to vote for or against him, which would certainly have an impact on the election.
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Yeah, I realized what I'd written but only got back to the post after the edit deadline.
 
Foolmewunz said:
jeremyp, I think you're looking at a win/win for your argument about us having to be careful that we don't claim he's guilty of things he hasn't been charged or indicted for.
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Actually, precisely the opposite. I think this is could be a lose/lose situation. In my opinion Trump is as guilty as ****. my problem is that a lot of people are talking as though the deal is already done and Trump is already on his way to prison.

If nobody is going to indict him (that in itself is pretty ****** up. Why should the President be immune to the law?) and you are relying on impeachment to get rid of him, it's not going to happen before 2020 unless the evidence is so damning that the Senate can't acquit without losing all credibility even with Republican voters. Unfortunately that is a really high bar.

I'm fairly sure Trump is going to prison after his term (or second term) is over, but that is not the primary goal. The primary goal is to get him out of the Whitehouse and realistically, the best way to do that is for the voters to boot him out in 2020.
 
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