I don't think I buy that. There really isn't anything to negotiate. Trump wants the wall, the Democrats fairly reasonably don't want it. There is no meet half way approach to this and they've tried being reasonable and reaching out before without gaining anything by it, This time they should stand their ground until Trump makes some meaningful concessions.
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I don't think I buy that. There really isn't anything to negotiate. Trump wants the wall, the Democrats fairly reasonably don't want it. There is no meet half way approach to this and they've tried being reasonable and reaching out before without gaining anything by it, This time they should stand their ground until Trump makes some meaningful concessions.
Armitage72
Philosopher
I get it. He thinks he's acting out that scene from the movie "Dave". Dave is told that if he can cut $650 million from the federal budget he can keep the homeless shelter he wanted to support. Trump is trying to cut $5 billion from the budget to get his wall.
Jeez, that's a flash from the past. I remember the time Orly Taitz went judge shopping down in Brownsville, claiming to have contracted TB from an illegal immigrant. Unfortunately she succeeded in getting Andrew S. Hanen to deliver a precursor to his later nationwide preliminary injunction against President Obama's DAPA (the so-called amnesty).
If anything, the Democrats should hammer home the point that there is a veto-proof majority in the Senate for the December 16 budget, one that the incoming Democratic House majority will pass as one of their first items, but that Mitch McConnell won't permit it to come up for a vote, as it would give the appearance of a weak president.
I have to wonder if Trump's idea of what the entire US/Mexico border looks like is just a few miles of flat desert with a few tumbleweeds and a cactus. He can't understand why anyone thinks putting up a big wall is so difficult.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
Maybe someone should take him for a walk along the whole thing.
Oh, wait. Bone spurs.
Make that a golf cart ride.
acbytesla
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Being willing to negotiate isn't the same thing as caving. The Democrats have made it known and need to keep on making it known that they are willing to discuss border security but aren't interested in pissing away taxpayer's money on ineffective and foolish expenditures.
Tsukasa Buddha
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Not really. Disgusted, but not surprised.
chrispy
Graduate Poster
But we all know the buck doesn't stop with Trump. It is always someone else's fault. I'm sure some patsy will take the bullet for him, sadly.
Molinaro
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That no big deal. Republican supporters much prefer that the government give handouts to farmers instead of them selling their products to commies.
And what would you think about a light and relatively inexpensive fence, with many sensors (which can detect vibrations) and cameras, similar to those shown on the first and third images of this BBC article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46699807 .
Could this be acceptable to you?
acbytesla
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There's already is fencing across much of it as well as a sizable river. But this so called problem is grossly exaggerated.
Also note that fence is 37 miles long. Our Southern border is 2000 miles long. Frankly, a much better position is for the US to help improve the economies of Central America.
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But, according to this article, Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador are due to receive more than $180 million in U.S. aid in 2019. Trump has, however, said:
So things seem to be moving in the direction opposite from what you suggest. Of course, with Trump, few people expect extreme generosity.
But it seems that the border wall prototypes Trump has been interested in are much thicker and heavier, some of them being made of concrete, as shown here: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/13/politics/trump-border-wall-prototypes-visit/index.html .
It is possible that an enormous amount of money could be saved if just a "high-tech" wire fence was used instead, I believe the existing wall does not cover the full border as yet, and the Democrats are apparently refusing any money for the wall. Isn't that a little excessive, from Nancy Pelosi who seems to be enjoying a nice vacation in Hawaii: https://www.rt.com/usa/447676-pelosi-hawaii-vacation-shutdown-trump/?
I mean, when you cross a border, you find a different language, different laws ... Isn't it fair to "inform" migrants they are entering a different country?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
1. As acbytesla said, much of the border (at least those parts that are easily accessible) is fenced anyway.
2. Trump's claim in support of the wall is that drugs and terrorists and criminals come across the border at unprotected points. This is a Big Fat Lie. By far the majority of drugs and criminals come in through the official 330 Ports of Entry at the 48 crossing points along the border*
3. Being from Europe, you might be familiar with how fortifications like this don't work. For example, the French's Maginot Line was supposed to be an impenetrable line to keep invading forces out. It was impenetrable alright; so the Germans just went around it via the Ardennes.
Congressman Hakeem Jeffries described it well in an MSNBC panel discussion this afternoon... "a 5th century solution to a 21st century problem"... its ridiculous, and it wont work.
* I can speak to why drug smugglers risk going through the Ports of Entry rather than the unprotected border if you like.
ETA:
And just to make things clearer, look how long this wall will have to be.
2000 miles (3000 KM).
It will have to pass through at least 22 counties in four states and be built on hundreds of pieces of private land which will have to be acquired by the US Government under Eminent Domain laws, and some of those land owners are going to object and file court cases against the US Government. That will cause delays, IMO, of sufficient length that even if this Congress does approve all or some of the $5 billion, if Trump is voted out in 2020; if he's not impeached by then (one or the other is likely) the whole project will be cancelled.
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acbytesla
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$180 million? Surely ye jest? Last year, Congress apportioned an extra 1.5 billion dollars for extra border security and it hasn't been spent. Trump is asking for 5 billion dollars for his wall and that isn't enough. It also is likely to have a negligible effect on illegal immigration since the vast majority of immigrants simply overstay their visas.
And as I pointed out. There already is fencing and sensors across much of our Southern border.
Ninja'd by the cooky.
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Skeptic Ginger
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His attention span couldn't last past half the distance of Tijuana.
Not sure about that:
(bolding by me)(quote from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico–United_States_barrier )
So, from reading wikipedia, I am getting the impression there are actually possibilities of significant extensions. Of course, it is possible that parts of the border not covered by the barrier are not much used by migrants to cross illegally into the U.S. from Mexico (I don't know much about that).
But there already is a barrier, which has at some point be approved by Democrats, I think. And it is there because it is perceived as having some usefulness.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Those barriers (37 miles of them) are near the crossing points and at points of easy access. The reasons for those being where they are is pretty damned obvious.
Also, the reasons why drug smugglers and criminals cross at the ports of entry and not out in the wilderness, is pretty obvious.
In short, the other 1963 miles do not need a wall because comparatively few people cross there.
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
Here's a section of US/Mexico border that apparently has no border barrier at all. It is located between the American state of New Mexico and the Mexican state of Chihuahua. The distance from the road seen, New Mexico State Highway 81, to the International border is barely 10 miles.
Sad!
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Sad!
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