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Intelligent Design

hammegk said:
The problem is that 'rocks' don't interact with 'rocks'. QM provides a description interactions terran life perceives, all of which require mediation by photons.

I make no claim one way or the other, but agree that rocks in the macro sense meet no definition of consciousness I would agree with.
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What about the interaction between the molecules within the rock? This in fact is what makes it a rock, correct?
 
Iacchus said:
Well, if it were in fact the "base property," why should anything behave any differently? ... Albeit it does do one thing, adds an extra dimension which allows us to exercise "our spirit."
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That doesn't answer my question. You're assuming that there is no other possibility than your hypothesis.

My question was pretty clear, I believe: what KNOWN function could such a base property have ? What difference would a spiritless universe have with the one you are positing ?
 
Belz... said:
Again, this memory could have been implanted. Your "belief" is irrelevant to the question.
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Yes, but in order to maintain such an effect, it would have to be maintained continuously. Otherwise there will always be a point -- if, such a thing were possible in the first place -- when I begin to remember things as they actually happen.
 
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Belz... said:
That doesn't answer my question. You're assuming that there is no other possibility than your hypothesis.

My question was pretty clear, I believe: what KNOWN function could such a base property have ? What difference would a spiritless universe have with the one you are positing ?
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Well, if I didn't believe there was a spiritual world, and a means of interacting with it, I wouldn't be wasting my time. The whole thing would be pointless don't you think?
 
Iacchus said:
Yes, but in order to maintain such an effect, it would have to be maintained continuously. Otherwise there will always be a point -- if, such a thing were possible in the first place -- when I begin to remember things as they actually do happen.
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What ? Your entire memory of the past has been created artificially, and the only TRUE memories you have are from the present onwards. Those implanted memories will behave exactly like real memories. What's this about "maintaining" them ? Real memories aren't "maintained", are they ? They degrade over time, don't they ? And your "new" memories are real.

Argh! Please just answer the question.
 
Iacchus said:
Well, if I didn't believe there was a spiritual world, and a means of interacting with it, I wouldn't be wasting my time. The whole thing would be pointless, don't you think?
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One can believe in a theory all they want. It doesn't make it true. And it doesn't answer my question. Again. How would a spiritless universe be different from a spiritful universe ?
 
Belz... said:
One can believe in a theory all they want. It doesn't make it true. And it doesn't answer my question. Again. How would a spiritless universe be different from a spiritful universe ?
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Well, for one, we wouldn't be able to make a Hot Toddy without spirits...
 
Belz... said:
One can believe in a theory all they want. It doesn't make it true. And it doesn't answer my question. Again. How would a spiritless universe be different from a spiritful universe ?
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Actually, there would be no Universe to speak of, since the material Universe is a subset of the spiritual. And, whether we're aware of it in this life or not is immaterial. It's not going to change the fact that the spiritual world is there.
 
Belz... said:
What ? Your entire memory of the past has been created artificially, and the only TRUE memories you have are from the present onwards. Those implanted memories will behave exactly like real memories. What's this about "maintaining" them ? Real memories aren't "maintained", are they ? They degrade over time, don't they ? And your "new" memories are real.

Argh! Please just answer the question.
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Yes, but "who" is going to experience these new memories, not to mention everything that occurs after the new memory has been implanted?
 
Iacchus said:
Actually, there would be no Universe to speak of, since the material Universe is a subset of the spiritual. And, whether we're aware of it in this life or not is immaterial. It's not going to change the fact that the spiritual world is there.
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Proove it. Prove that there is even a "sptiritual" realm. Whip out that purple crayon and start scribbling, Iacchus. Proof. If you need help, please feel free to ask. One of us would be more than happy to assist you in making a logical case.
 
Iacchus said:
Actually, there would be no Universe to speak of, since the material Universe is a subset of the spiritual. And, whether we're aware of it in this life or not is immaterial. It's not going to change the fact that the spiritual world is there.
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Dear Iacchus. It seems you are completely incapable of understanding anything save your own assumptions.

You ASSUME that the spiritual exists. I ask you how you could tell the difference between a world where it DOES exist and a world where it doesn't. You basically answer that... the spiritual exists. Again, you do not answer my question, and assert the same thing over and over. You have no intention of taking part in a discussion, nor do you know what arguments of evidence are. You show a complete disdain for logic and the scientific process, and allow yourself to be blinded by faith to the detriment of reason.

Why are you here anyway ? This is the James Randi Educational Foundation. If you're not here to learn or to help others learn, then why post here ? Are you trolling ? I think you are. Either that, or you're completely delusional. Either way, it's pointless to continue to argue with you, because you live in your own, personnal universe.

Good day, sir.
 
kmortis said:
Proove it. Prove that there is even a "sptiritual" realm. Whip out that purple crayon and start scribbling, Iacchus. Proof. If you need help, please feel free to ask. One of us would be more than happy to assist you in making a logical case.
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Oh, chicken...I did it again.
 
Belz... said:
Dear Iacchus. It seems you are completely incapable of understanding anything save your own assumptions.
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Is it an assumption? Why do you "assume" that it is?

You ASSUME that the spiritual exists. I ask you how you could tell the difference between a world where it DOES exist and a world where it doesn't. You basically answer that... the spiritual exists. Again, you do not answer my question, and assert the same thing over and over.
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Actually, I don't recall having said (in so many words) that the material world was wholly contingent upon the spiritual world. And yes, I did answer your question, to the extent that no such thing would exist. Albeit I did bring up the notion that consciousness was a "base property" but, it sounded to me (according to the nature of your question) like you didn't understand what that fully entailed.

You have no intention of taking part in a discussion, nor do you know what arguments of evidence are.
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No, I have no intention of having you folks continue to address me as if I were speaking out of my arse.

You show a complete disdain for logic and the scientific process, and allow yourself to be blinded by faith to the detriment of reason.
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Blinded by faith? Either I know what I know and I have something to say about it or, I don't. It's as simple as that.

Why are you here anyway ? This is the James Randi Educational Foundation. If you're not here to learn or to help others learn, then why post here ? Are you trolling ? I think you are. Either that, or you're completely delusional. Either way, it's pointless to continue to argue with you, because you live in your own, personnal universe.

Good day, sir.
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Well, obviously I'm not here because I agree with anyone. But then again, this is a skeptic's site is it not? So, why are you here? Is it because of all the religion bashing going on? Just a wild guess.
 
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Mojo said:
Could you bend over a bit further, please? I can't quite hear you.
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Why, is it because I used "arse" instead of "ass" that got you turned on here? Yeah, I know how you British are. ;) But hey, I was just trying to be polite.
 
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