Mueller Investigation pt4

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Fast Eddie B said:
I was discussing Trump with someone who thought he was being persecuted. I said one easy way to avoid such was to simply not break the law.

Their response? “Well, don’t you speed sometimes?”
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The proper response to that question is: "yes, and that's why I get tickets. If I don't want to get tickets, the solution is to not speed."
 
Safe-Keeper said:
The complete lack of principles is why I don't want trumpkins in my life. Anything goes as long as it's der Führer doing it. Horribly threatening to democracy.
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Indeed. An enormous revelation to me over the past couple of years is there are so many people in my life for whom I've had to change my opinion from "I'm sorry that you're a moron" to "Wow, you are just an utterly horrible person."
 
jimbob said:
Luckily Smartcooky has quoted what had been said.



"that the agents observed none of the common indicia of lying — physical manifestations, changes in tone, changes in pace — that would indicate the person I’m interviewing knows they’re telling me stuff that ain’t true.” “They didn’t see that here. It was a natural conversation, answered fully their questions, didn’t avoid. That notwithstanding, they concluded he was lying.”
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They concluded he lied because they had actual evidence to the contrary. That he showed none of the common indicia just indicates he's a good liar. Unlike Trump.
 
Firestone said:
Some nice goalpost moving from Giuliani:
“Nobody got killed[...]
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Well, Aleksandr Torshin has disappeared which isn't a great sign. And I don't give Maria Butina a very long life expectancy once she's served her time and been deported to Russia.

More to the point - Jared Kushner gave MBS classified information about dissidents, which MBS then used to make people disappear. And Pompeo allegedly hand-delivered a plan to the Saudis to help them deflect the blame for the Khashoggi murder.

So you're wrong, Mr. Giuliani - people have been killed, and I honestly hope that anybody who is culpable in their deaths spends the rest of their lives in prison.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
And I don't give Maria Butina a very long life expectancy once she's served her time and been deported to Russia.
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She has a good shot at refuge status assuming the president does not do anything. Just the fact that Russia might do something to her should be enough. Worst case would be finding her another country to settle in.

An acquaintance from Montenegro was in the US on vacation when we started bombing Serbia. The state department decided she should not go home and got her refuge status and she is now a citizen.

A former girlfriend originally from China was in the US as a grad student when Tienanmen Square happened. Also granted refuge status and is now a citizen. The only sticking point for her was she was supposed to pay back the Chinese government for her education if she staid. She offered to do that and the Chinese government came back telling her they were not sure exactly what part of the government the money would be paid back to and to stop worrying about it.
 
Doubt said:
She has a good shot at refuge status assuming the president does not do anything. Just the fact that Russia might do something to her should be enough. Worst case would be finding her another country to settle in.

An acquaintance from Montenegro was in the US on vacation when we started bombing Serbia. The state department decided she should not go home and got her refuge status and she is now a citizen.

A former girlfriend originally from China was in the US as a grad student when Tienanmen Square happened. Also granted refuge status and is now a citizen. The only sticking point for her was she was supposed to pay back the Chinese government for her education if she staid. She offered to do that and the Chinese government came back telling her they were not sure exactly what part of the government the money would be paid back to and to stop worrying about it.
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But neither of the people you've mentioned pled guilty to conspiring against the United States. I'd imagine that would make it much harder to be granted asylum.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
For what other reasons is it wrong?
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The popehat thread is interesting. He never once says that Flynn should be released or anything. He basically says that he doesn't like how these investigations work, not just against Flynn, in general. The government has a more lenient standard against you than you have against them.

This isn't much of a defense of Flynn as it is a knock on the government process. He never says Flynn was treated any differently than any other citizen.

TBD cherry picking per his usual standard.
 
plague311 said:
The popehat thread is interesting. He never once says that Flynn should be released or anything. He basically says that he doesn't like how these investigations work, not just against Flynn, in general. The government has a more lenient standard against you than you have against them.

This isn't much of a defense of Flynn as it is a knock on the government process. He never says Flynn was treated any differently than any other citizen.

TBD cherry picking per his usual standard.
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Oh, I know Popehat isn't defending Flynn.

I'm interested to hear TBD articulate in what other ways he thinks the way the FBI treated Flynn is wrong. I am again unsurprised that he will not.
 
The Big Dog said:
But there is a principled argument that what happened to Flynn is wrong.

"Flynn was wrong to lie to the FBI. He should have lawyered up and/or told the truth. But what happened - the government convicting him because he told a lie they anticipated and never believed, that never hindered or delayed them -- is not right."

damn right it is not right, and not just for the reasons cited today by popehat.
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It might be "principled" but that doesn't mean it's correct.
"Material," in law, generally means "capable of making a difference." The false statement must, in some way, matter to the proceeding you're lying in.
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If Flynn lied about conversations with Russians about sanctions, that is absolutely "material" in deciding if he had "guilty knowledge" that it was improper. On the other hand, if he told the truth, that would be evidence that he didn't consider it improper. Flynn surely knew the risk he was taking by lying, so one might conclude that there was some reason that made it worth the risk.
 
"the two people who interviewed [Flynn] didn't think he was lying, [which] was not [a] great beginning of a false statement case."

-McCabe.
 
johnny karate said:
I like how TBD posts a quote that he thinks supports his argument, then directly contradicts part of that quote a few posts later, and still expects people to take anything he says seriously.
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He also quotes McCabe ad nauseum after it's been shown time and again how wrong he is about that statement.

I personally think it's an experiment to see if that lie is repeated enough, we'll think it's true.

Though I think everyone just eyerolls at it now and moves on. To quote South Park "as is tradition".
 
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