Cont: The Trump Presidency 11: Insert something funny

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Comey doesn't want Trump impeached at all. He prefers that he runs in 2020 and is soundly rejected in a landslide.
 
I think he is clearly impeachable (and guilty) if judged solely on the basis of his violating his oath of office to "defend the Constitution of the United States." His actions have repeatedly sort to undermine, counter, and destroy the very core of our lawful government. I see that as clearly "High Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Separately, of course, a strong argument can be made for Trump having also violated the Treason and Bribery clauses as well. In many ways he has achieved 4 out of 4 of the justifications in the Constitution for impeachment and conviction. He is exceptional in at least this way.
 
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Steve said:
I wonder how that chief of staff search is going. Candidates do not seem to be lining up for the honor.
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Well, there's two vacancies open. Trump's Chief of Staff, or Head Project Manager on the Death Star.

Everyone's opting to work for Vader, he treats his staff better.
 
Paul2 said:
So how about the strategy of waiting to impeach him if and only if he wins the 2020 election? Admittedly you'd be in the same situation with his base as if you impeached him as soon as you could, but this way you'd allow for the chance - and it might be more likely than not - of defeating him and squelching any talk of a coup.
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This would be the "stab in the back" story which persuaded so many Germans that they hadn't really lost the Great War, but had been betrayed by politicians.

When the Armistice was declared and the German Army marched home, Pershing was appalled, and declared "the next generation will have to come over here and finish the job". An astute observation.
 
Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) is dismissing the Cohen-Trump campaign finance felonies:
Sen. Orrin G. Hatch on Monday dismissed new court papers directly implicating President Trump in efforts to buy women’s silence, saying the matter is irrelevant because the economy is booming and the payments were made before Trump was elected to the White House.

“Since he’s become president this economy has charged ahead,” Hatch said, adding, “And I think we ought to judge him on that basis other than trying to drum up things from the past that may or may not be true.”

The Republican also told Raju that “you can make anything a crime under the current laws” and that he believes Trump is doing a good job.

Earlier in his congressional career, during Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial in 1999, Hatch voted to convict the president, saying in a statement at the time that “committing crimes of moral turpitude such as perjury and obstruction of justice go to the heart of qualification for public office.”

“This great nation can tolerate a president who makes mistakes,” Hatch said then. “But it cannot tolerate one who makes a mistake and then breaks the law to cover it up. Any other citizen would be prosecuted for these crimes.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dfd0e0dd65a_story.html?utm_term=.ce62b4a7df20

Gotta love such blatant partisanship.
 
alfaniner said:
I'd like to see him "got" by something he has done in office (as President) rather than during the nomination campaign or as President-Elect.
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I think Trump was compromised by Putin and therefore incapable of working on behalf of the nation. I see Trump as a full fledged traitor. A person who has sold out to a foreign power should be in prison, not the White House. It's dangerous for the country for a person like that to be in charge.

I certainly can appreciate Comey's point and I would agree with him if not for the foreign policy considerations.
 
I continue to hope Trump serves the remainder of his term and is then voted out of office in 2020. If he is impeached or otherwise forced from office I fear him being cast as a martyr. His backers have already seriously degraded and damaged our democracy. With Trump as martyr who knows how crazy things may become. :(

I think the best way for the nation to "heal" is to see Trump rejected by a majority of the voters followed by an Electoral College loss. I think it is almost a certainty his core supporters will then claim the election was rigged -- as Trump himself said about the 2016 election (and as he still seems to saying) -- but I don't think that accusation will play well.

I truly believe having him voted out of office is the best alternative.
 
acbytesla said:
The Constitution doesn't define what are high crimes and misdemeanors....
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I remember being confused by this lack of definition in my high school civics class. I researched it on my own afterward. Letters from the founders seem to indicate that it means crimes and misdemeanors committed by someone holding a "high" office. So it's not the offense that's high; it's the office. Any old crime will do, if Congress wants to prosecute.
 
newyorkguy said:
I continue to hope Trump serves the remainder of his term and is then voted out of office in 2020. If he is impeached or otherwise forced from office I fear him being cast as a martyr. His backers have already seriously degraded and damaged our democracy. With Trump as martyr who knows how crazy things may become. :(

I think the best way for the nation to "heal" is to see Trump rejected by a majority of the voters followed by an Electoral College loss. I think it is almost a certainty his core supporters will then claim the election was rigged -- as Trump himself said about the 2016 election (and as he still seems to saying) -- but I don't think that accusation will play well.

I truly believe having him voted out of office is the best alternative.
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As much as I would love to see him impeached and found guilty of a serious crime (obstruction of justice, conspiracy being my favored ones), there is an argument to be had for your post. Trump's base will refuse to believe anything Mueller finds as being anything more than the witch hunt Trump has convinced them it is and could become even more extreme. But, DAMN, I do want to see the loathsome toad humiliated and kicked out of office!
 
acbytesla said:
I think Trump was compromised by Putin and therefore incapable of working on behalf of the nation. I see Trump as a full fledged traitor. A person who has sold out to a foreign power should be in prison, not the White House. It's dangerous for the country for a person like that to be in charge.

I certainly can appreciate Comey's point and I would agree with him if not for the foreign policy considerations.
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Do you have a sense of what policy decisions would have been different if he didn't get help but still won?
 
newyorkguy said:
I continue to hope Trump serves the remainder of his term and is then voted out of office in 2020. If he is impeached or otherwise forced from office I fear him being cast as a martyr. His backers have already seriously degraded and damaged our democracy. With Trump as martyr who knows how crazy things may become. :(

I think the best way for the nation to "heal" is to see Trump rejected by a majority of the voters followed by an Electoral College loss. I think it is almost a certainty his core supporters will then claim the election was rigged -- as Trump himself said about the 2016 election (and as he still seems to saying) -- but I don't think that accusation will play well.

I truly believe having him voted out of office is the best alternative.
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I think it's the best alternative too. But it is not the right thing to do. And I believe it is ignoring the continued damage Trump does to the country and the world. That a President would treat Putin the way Trump did. That the President is seriously damaging our relations with our allies. That he ignores the murder of a reporter with American children. That his Son in Law is advising Saudi Arabia. That he ignores Russia's annexation of Crimea.

I think we have been relatively lucky up to now that Trump hasn't blown up the world yet.
 
newyorkguy said:
I continue to hope Trump serves the remainder of his term and is then voted out of office in 2020. If he is impeached or otherwise forced from office I fear him being cast as a martyr. His backers have already seriously degraded and damaged our democracy. With Trump as martyr who knows how crazy things may become. :(

I think the best way for the nation to "heal" is to see Trump rejected by a majority of the voters followed by an Electoral College loss. I think it is almost a certainty his core supporters will then claim the election was rigged -- as Trump himself said about the 2016 election (and as he still seems to saying) -- but I don't think that accusation will play well.

I truly believe having him voted out of office is the best alternative.
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It also means there will be another two years during which Trump and the GOP will almost certainly take the USA to the bottom of the dumpster, given the way things are going. So the GOP either have to get a snorkel then drown with him, or at some point very soon defy him and try to pull out of the dive.

Meanwhile, the Dems don't have to do anything except get their act together and look part-way viable as a government. They should act like Donny and the GOP are not even there, and let them blow themselves up. They should ignore his taunts, keep their noses clean, build their policies, publicise their message, etc. That is, do all the things a responsible party might do to prepare to win and govern in 2020. Because if the current state of affairs is anything to go by, the GOP will have imploded and the Dems will be the only choice available in 2020, for better or worse.
 
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acbytesla said:
I think Trump was compromised by Putin and therefore incapable of working on behalf of the nation. I see Trump as a full fledged traitor. A person who has sold out to a foreign power should be in prison, not the White House. It's dangerous for the country for a person like that to be in charge...
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I share these suspicions. But even if we're wrong, the mere proven fact that he did nothing* in the aftermath of Russian meddling in the election, after being told the meddling was ongoing, impresses me as a compelling reason to impeach him.

* except for being a Putin apologist, contrary to his own government/people
 
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