Hawking says there are no gods

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David Mo said:
No. The statement "There is a skyscraper built with toothpicks" does not need science to be refuted. Common sense and our daily experience are enough.
But this is not our problem. Here it is stated that it is science that proves that "God does not exist". ...
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You continue to misstate the premise just as psion does. Using imprecise language when precise language is called for demonstrates you don't understand science.

There is overwhelming evidence that humans make up god myths.

Your denial, based on you not seeing that in some journal, is ignorant. There are many scientific investigations of mythical gods.

There is no evidence of any real gods. By all means if you have some evidence post it. I know you don't because I know there isn't any.

From those two facts one can conclude there is overwhelming evidence that all gods are mythical beings. It's a valid conclusion.
 
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David Mo said:
Do you really believe that there are scientific subjects that science is not accustomed(????) to dealing with? This doesn't make sense. If a subject is scientific it will be dealt with in the places where science is done and published. That is, in scientific journals.

Do you think Ginger's analysis would be published in a scientific journal? That's as much of a science as an apple pie, regardless of what you say is uninteligible. Could you say that more clearly, please? What you think science is?

Of course you're not talking about malaria. It is the question that I ask you and that you avoid because you know that I have caught you or because you suspect it. So I will answer: If you want to know the effects of a malaria vaccine you will have to go to a scientific journal, medical in this case. It's the normal procedure when you want to know about a particular problem: go to the scientific literature on the case.
(By the way, I think you're wrong about what "scientific literature" means, not "literature" as you say).
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There are scientific journal articles on the Cargo Cults. Your denial that gods are myths is based on the straw man argument, "Do you think Ginger's analysis would be published in a scientific journal?" Rather than accepting that evidence of human generated god myths is going to be cumulative, you insist my conclusion about the body of evidence must be what the 'scientific journal' addresses.

Saying no one can comment on a body of evidence until that comment itself is published is an absurd basis to deny conclusions on bodies of scientific evidence.
 
Darat said:
Thanks for illustrating how accurate I was in my prediction:


You will now undoubtedly waffle on about metaphors, we need to interpret x as z and so on. By all means do that but then you are no longer talking about the Zeus that people claimed existed.​

According to the Greeks Zeus lived on and ruled from Olympus.
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Zeus is a dick! :mad:
 
I'd say more shapeshifting serial rapist than "dick" but at least he never drowned the whole world because his game of the Sims got away from him.
 
Porpoise of Life said:
Only because God has the tendency to retreat into ever greater vagueness when questioned.
(...)
Ah, well, how about an abstract principle of creation that only interacts with us in a way that is indistinguishable from random chance?

God is placed beyond the scope of, as you say, common sense and our daily experience, on basis of nothing but the say-so of his believers, who simultaneously claim that no claim about God has to be literally true for God himself to be real anyway.
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Your first proposition is not scientific. It is a historical proposition, debatable in historical terms. As such it is liable to be specified and controversial. Do you agree?

The fact is that many believers, regardless of what we say in the first paragraph, believe that God manifests Himself to them internally with some kind of need that implies a certain degree of certainty. Regardless of whether or not he is a creator god and how that creation could have been effected. Do you agree that such beliefs exist?

If you want an example, and not to make this comment too long you could take a look at "The Moral Arguments for Deity" in Russell's Why I am not a Christian in Academy.edu or here: http://www.naturalthinker.net/trl/t...rtrand Russell - Why I am not a Christian.pdf
After you've read it we may be able to discuss the topic by focusing on something more concrete. If you like.
 
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David Mo said:
Well, I'll wait until one of you has something to answer to what I said.
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Yeah because you aren't saying the same thing over and over that has been addressed ad nauseum. :rolleyes:

You think you are moving the discussion forward. You aren't.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
There are scientific journal articles on the Cargo Cults. Your denial that gods are myths is based on the straw man argument, "Do you think Ginger's analysis would be published in a scientific journal?" Rather than accepting that evidence of human generated god myths is going to be cumulative, you insist my conclusion about the body of evidence must be what the 'scientific journal' addresses.

Saying no one can comment on a body of evidence until that comment itself is published is an absurd basis to deny conclusions on bodies of scientific evidence.
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The anthropological studies on the Cargo cults do not aim at the existence of gods, but at the mechanisms of formation of beliefs and social worships. But even so, the fact that the Cargo cults are a mystification does not scientifically imply that all religions are the same mystification. Believers in religions they consider evolved would agree that religions such as Cargo cults are false. But they would have reason to consider that theirs are different.

What's more, they would find anthropological reasons; in anthropology itself.
 
And now we're going to have to explain how "A belief in something is not the actual thing itself" to David same as we did with Tommy.

I don't get this weird "SO ARE YOU SAYING THE BELIEFS AREN'T REAL?" thing you and Tommy are stuck on.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Nomed. :D
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*Laughs* Last night I got frustrated trying to complete a certain mission in Jurassic World: Evolution so I just made a safe save of the game then deleted the exit to the park and turned off the electricity to all the carnivore fences and just... let it all happen.

If the Sims, the villagers in Minecraft, or the tourist in the Jurassic Park simulation games have souls there is no Hell I will not go to.
 
David Mo said:
The anthropological studies on the Cargo cults do not aim at the existence of gods, but at the mechanisms of formation of beliefs and social worships. But even so, the fact that the Cargo cults are a mystification does not scientifically imply that all religions are the same mystification. Believers in religions they consider evolved would agree that religions such as Cargo cults are false. But they would have reason to consider that theirs are different.

What's more, they would find anthropological reasons; in anthropology itself.
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You are ignoring the cumulative body of evidence, the Cargo Cults is only one an example.

You can't cite a single example of a god that is not a myth.

Your whole argument boils down to asserting that people's reports that the god they believe in feels real to them is evidence said god(s) exist. All the rest of your gobbledegook is just window dressing.

So if people believe astrology works, that's evidence it does.
If they believe in homeopathy that's evidence it works. After all, they felt it work.
If people believe they were abducted by aliens that's evidence they were.​
I suspect you can see the problem, and I suspect you find some way to rationalize how god beliefs are different. :rolleyes:
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
You are ignoring the cumulative body of evidence, the Cargo Cults is only one an example.

You can't cite a single example of a god that is not a myth.

Your whole argument boils down to asserting that people's reports that the god they believe in feels real to them is evidence said god(s) exist.
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I'm not the one who has to prove anything. Science is supposed to prove that all gods don't exist. That was the subject of the thread.
 
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