Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 5

Another shaky still frame of the jumbled wood pile which I call a logjam while Titmus calls it a tree root system.
 

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DennyT said:
As far as I know that published diagram was redrawn by Krantz and the “root system” was added by him.
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I didn't know that bit of trivia, but in a way it doesn't matter much.

We see that there is a large jumble pile at the creek and it coincides with where Patty started her walk according to the P&G story. That jumble pile must be the thing that they said concealed Patty until "the moment" that she became visible.
 
Also, the stream is flowing from right to left, and is concealed behind the embankment that is in the immediate foreground. The furthest right point of the stream is where the stream is coming out from behind the embankment and then flowing towards the camera. That "logjam" on the left is a pile of logs and other forest debris shoved up on the west side of the creek. It sits up on the bank, which acts as a bit of a corner in the stream. The modified drawing shows a log spanning the creek. That is not the case. The log bridge thing was in King Kong, and was a LOT bigger, and Kong rocked it back and forth to knock the people off. Sometimes bigfooters mix up their giant ape stories; it happens a lot. Also, Titmus said a LOT of things that were not accurate nor true. Photos and accurate site measurements are much better than imprecise, inaccurate sketches made by people who think horse poop is bigfoot poop.
 
Tontar said:
The furthest right point of the stream is where the stream is coming out from behind the embankment and then flowing towards the camera.
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I think you meant to say the furthest left point of the stream.


Also, Titmus said a LOT of things that were not accurate nor true. Photos and accurate site measurements are much better than imprecise, inaccurate sketches made by people who think horse poop is bigfoot poop.
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I regard Titmus as being one of the most prolific hoaxers in the history of Bigfootery. According to him, he found "hundreds and hundreds" of Bigfoot tracks after visiting many locations. From what I can see he never went anywhere without finding Bigfoot tracks. He was a Bigfoot-hunter-for-hire and he always delivered, so to speak. Sometimes he would create plaster casts of the tracks he "found" and sometimes not. It seems that he did not carry a camera at all. My opinion is that the tracks that he "found" out in the woods were actually created by him as opposed to being created by some other hoaxer. Exceptions to that would be the Patty and Wallace tracks but he didn't really find those - instead he was directed to them.

The horse poop pile. I don't think that he actually thought that that was Bigfoot poop and instead knew that it was horse poop. I think he thought that others might believe him if he said that it was Bigfoot poop. He was a Bigfoot hoaxer, not a stupid idiot per se. He played on other's beliefs and desires for Bigfoot to be real and he did it for money. Until they stopped paying which they did. Maybe the horse poop hoax was his bridge too far or his jumping of the shark. He chose a calculated risk and lost.
 
William Parcher said:
I didn't know that bit of trivia, but in a way it doesn't matter much.

We see that there is a large jumble pile at the creek and it coincides with where Patty started her walk according to the P&G story. That jumble pile must be the thing that they said concealed Patty until "the moment" that she became visible.
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WP
While I understand your use of “must” to indicate your belief, to state that this “jumble” “must be” what they talked about seems to be an overreach as the driftwood in the film does not fit the narrative in its nature, its size, or its location vis a vis the initial positions of the camera and the subject. A log is a log and neither that nor driftwood is a rootball or root system. Even for a log that is a small log. Given Patty’s direction of march that can’t be where Patty was when first seen according to the story.

There seems to have never been anything that does fit in all three categories. The jumble pile fits none. This is not surprising as the entire episode was fraudulent and overhyped in hopes of making a tabloid/mans magazine/sideshow kind of entertainment. But even the guy most knowledgeable about the site and believes the story feels like the 8 ft rootball is what Patterson was referring to, and it just took longer to start filming than is commonly thought.
In any case we are debating about a work of fiction. There was no Bigfoot nor was it hidden behind anything. Like any good fiction/screenplay writer, Patterson mixed in real things and details with his fictional plot and characters. The truly giant rootball (which they passed many many times, as it was about halfway between their camp and the filmsite) may well have been such a feature.
Speaking of which if anyone would like to visit the site next spring to investigate any aspects of the story while hiking some great country we are starting to plan...
 
I see that in the 1992 interview with John Green, Gimlin called it a fallen tree.

"There was a fallen tree and as we came around it there was this creature standing by the creek."
 
Here is a layout diagram made by mangler (he used to post on JREF). He has shown the jumble pile that we see in the first few frames. He calls it debris. I think that the background of this image was taken right from some survey map and maybe it was online. The #1 on this map is the location of Patterson at the very beginning of the film. Some red lines to the left indicate the path that Patty walked starting from the beginning of the film.

I do believe that this jumble pile is what P&G were talking about when they said that Patty was initially concealed and then came into view as they rode.
 

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William Parcher said:
I see that in the 1992 interview with John Green, Gimlin called it a fallen tree.

"There was a fallen tree and as we came around it there was this creature standing by the creek."
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No mention of any fallen tree hiding Patty in the 67 interview.

The "hidden by the fallen tree" idea does not seem to exist early in the history of the PGF.
 
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I'm having fun reading this thread. Keep it going. I like the idea of big foot anyways. :)
 
William Parcher said:
Here is a layout diagram made by mangler (he used to post on JREF). He has shown the jumble pile that we see in the first few frames. He calls it debris. I think that the background of this image was taken right from some survey map and maybe it was online. The #1 on this map is the location of Patterson at the very beginning of the film. Some red lines to the left indicate the path that Patty walked starting from the beginning of the film.

I do believe that this jumble pile is what P&G were talking about when they said that Patty was initially concealed and then came into view as they rode.[/QUOTE ]

Manglers diagram is colorful. It is quite inaccurate in several respects and judging by that, Mangler never went there. The diagrams made by the Rediscovery Project who have spent considerable time and effort there and Bill Munns (who has studied the film in great detail) and spent two days at the site are much more accurate.
For the present purposes note that Mangler made up the great majority of whatever was in the driftwood pile. Further, if you look at the initial film positions of the subject and camera it is clear that the subject did not start his pathway from the right of the debris seen in the first frame.
The film was shot exactly where it was because it is was a perfect location for Patterson to get a sun lit shot at the distance that would allow for the perfect amount of combination of resolution and exposure that would look convincing without allowing people to “see the zipper.” And it had to be on a sandbar that could credibly allow for tracks. What it lacked was a big obstacle that could be used to explain how they surprised the Bigfoot.

The PG boys’ stories are generally conflicting and inconsistent even as to locations including their camp. Patterson was a sociopath who had no problem with blatant lies even when the evidence could have easily exposed the attempted deception. Sociopaths enjoy making fools of others. He wasn’t surprised by a Bigfoot behind a root system. But he wanted you to believe he was.
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William Parcher said:
I think you meant to say the furthest left point of the stream.
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Nope, I think I said it correctly. The stream is flowing FROM the north. The north is to the right. The stream is flowing from the right side of the frame, towards the left. There are even little arrow lines on my blue stream line to indicate flow direction.

The sandbar is cut through by the stream, and the camera is currently on the southeast embankment looking roughly northwest. So the stream upstream of what we see here is hidden by the raised embankments, flows from right to left, comes out from behind the embankments and turns towards the camera. It then exits stage left, lower left to be more precise. The area toward the upper left of the frame is dead ended, it is not the stream bed. That tree and brush pile, is not laying across the stream, it is pushed out of the stream and onto the SW embankment.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
I just don't see the point in establishing the filming site.

It proves nothing about the veracity of the film.
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We already have a pretty good idea of the film speed (18 frames per second) In general terms, lens, landmarks, direction, location, and distance and other derivative stuff can now also be determined. The stories told by Patterson and Gimlin and that told by Heironimus become potentially falsifiable.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
I just don't see the point in establishing the filming site.

It proves nothing about the veracity of the film.
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Yeah, I get your point.

I would be keen on the most accurate "re-creation" of the hoaxing environment. Anything else bores me.

The horses were a stage prop. They drove their two-wheel drive junker directly to the film site.

You couldn't drive a Corvette, so Bob Heironimus had to stash his and go in their pick-up. You could cross those streams easily in a pick-up. Until it got overgrown again.

Now it is a bit of a hike. It is not the lazy-ass stage upon which the film was set.

I do tip my hat to people who have shown good diagrams and pics in understanding the original hoaxing environment though. One thing I have picked up from it is how closed-in things were. The name Bluff Creek is for a reason.

There was no place for a bigfoot to go after the end of the walk sequence. There's no habitations, no food, no evidence of bedding or poop or hair or resource harvesting of any kind. Just a set of tracks and really shaky at-distance hoax film. The hoaxers disappear and the road work/logging continues on without bigfoot about.

Titmus' horse poop story, as told by that unimpeachable Dean of Yeti - Peter Byrne...

One of the funniest things I have ever read. But this was the class of people involved.
 
A little-mentioned part of the story: Patty's tracks were of a unique individual never seen in the area before or since the film subject's little stroll.
 
jerrywayne said:
A little-mentioned part of the story: Patty's tracks were of a unique individual never seen in the area before or since the film subject's little stroll.
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That's interesting.

Someone with a real keen eye for tracks might be able to correlate them with anything in Washington.

According to Making of Bigfoot, Patterson was hoaxing tracks as prep for talks he gave on bigfoot and his book about Abominable Snowmen in America. He did a lot around Yakima, but the book doesn't go into photographs and track forensics.

It occurs to me that someone good, with a collection ironically like Dr. Merldumb's, could probably classify all the different hoaxers. A hoaxing encyclopedia with Wallace, Titmus, Patterson, whoever did cripple-foot, etc.
 
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