Hawking says there are no gods

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dann said:
The forces of nature is one thing. It's quite another when they are organized into highly complex systems. Gravity sees to it that matter attracts matter ... unless the matter consists of polar opposites, then another force of nature may be stronger. Organized as life, a squirrel may run up a tree away from the centre of gravity. And organized as highly evolved brains, the mind may to a certain extent influence the structure of the brain (and a lot of other things).
The laws of nature don't predetermine what I'm going to think or what I'm going to decide.
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A lot of people disagree, and hold that there is no non-material "mind" that is able to influence brain structures.

I tried to read the Hegel link but I didn't get very far.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Ask a two year old to explain it to you, because literally all of them understand it.
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I was going to say, this entire line of inquiry reminds me of a phase of parenting I do not miss very much. lol
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
More please :)
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A mind exists within a brain.

Concepts exist within minds exclusively.

A brain is a physical thing.

Physical things exist outside of minds/brains but can be represented within minds as a concept.

Do you need a flowchart, or a spreadsheet?
 
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Tommy Jeppesen said:
You made the claim. You explain it.
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What claim? That real and unreal aren't the same thing?

No. I'm not going to explain the base concept of reality to someone who's already rejected it.

This game is tired Tommy and the only reason I'm engaging you here is in the vein hope you'll stop dumping paragraphs of forced pidgin-English nonsense into every thread in this subforum.

Grow up.
 
If there is a difference between physical things and conceptual ideas, how can the conceptual idea of "conceptual ideas" have a physical representation here on this screen?

I am still waiting for an answer. Give me a PM, when you find a 2 year old human.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
If there is a difference between physical things and conceptual ideas, how can the conceptual idea of "conceptual ideas" have a physical representation here on this screen?
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Via language (the written word, in this case), which is a very cool thing. No need for supernatural telepathy - this communication via language stuff is freaky effective enough to do the same thing, essentially.
 
kellyb said:
A mind exists with a brain

Concepts exist with minds exclusively.

A brain is a physical thing.

Physical things exist outside of minds but can be represented within minds as a concept.

Do you need a flowchart, or a spreadsheet?
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How do concepts have a representation between humans; i.e. sounds, letters and what not, if concepts exist with minds exclusively?
How is language about concepts possible, if language goes through physical things?

And how does physical things turn into a representation, if the representation exists within minds exclusively as a concept?
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
How do concepts have a representation between humans; i.e. sounds, letters and what not, if concepts exist with minds exclusively?
How is language about concepts possible, if language goes through physical things?

And how does physical things turn into a representation, if the representation exists within minds exclusively as a concept?
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That's an interesting scientific question, and it's still being debated within the field of linguistics.

See: https://web.archive.org/web/20131228122250/http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20021122.pdf

And a quote from a wiki article:

"Evidently, development of language in the individual must involve three factors: (1) genetic endowment, which sets limits on the attainable languages, thereby making language acquisition possible; (2) external data, converted to the experience that selects one or another language within a narrow range; (3) principles not specific to the Faculty of Language."
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Tommy Jeppesen said:
You haven't touched on how concepts exist with minds exclusively, yet they pass through the physical things.
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Concepts are defined as such.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concept
concept -
something conceived in the mind
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A cloud is just a cloud in the sky, but it can look like/resemble a ship, or an elephant, in a mind.

A foreign language might just sound like random sounds to someone unfamiliar with the language, but to a native speaker, it's the transmission of concepts from one mind into another.
 
kellyb said:
Concepts are defined as such.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concept


A cloud is just a cloud in the sky, but it can look like/resemble a ship, or an elephant, in a mind.

A foreign language might just sound like random sounds to someone unfamiliar with the language, but to a native speaker, it's the transmission of concepts from one mind into another.
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How does this transmission of concepts take place in physical things, if concepts exist with minds exclusively?

This conversation happens through physical things?!!
 
I'd like to take this moment to remind everyone that this current digression about language, the connection between the mind and reality, and so forth is all just Tommy's roundabout way of trying to dispute the notion that garage dragons are defined in such a way that they do not exist.
 
Nonpareil said:
I'd like to take this moment to remind everyone that this current digression about language, the connection between the mind and reality, and so forth is all just Tommy's roundabout way of trying to dispute the notion that garage dragons are defined in such a way that they do not exist.
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Yeah, I think I'm over dipping my toes back in the land of Tommyisms. :)
 
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