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Intelligent Design

Um....you forgot the other option. He did not make a claim one way or the other, but merely called you on yours. His stance may be that there is no designer, or merely that there is no evidence for one. His post did not make a claim of any certainty that a designer does not exist. Please read what he said, not what you wanted him to say.
Whether he is able to assess what I say is true or not, does not make me ignorant or, a liar. So, he must in fact have proof to the contrary of what I'm saying.

The fact that you are unable to put together a cogent argument or the least bit of evidence is not the criterion for whether something exists. No one made the claim that it did not exist; the claim was that there is no evidence in support of that contention. There is a world of difference there. And your inability to give logical or evidential reasons to suppose that there is a designer merely is another case of "no evidence for this alleged entity."
This is no doubt your claim, and it's the kind of double-speak one goes up against when confronting the establishment. Remember this ... I am David; you are Goliath.
 
Whether he is able to assess what I say is true or not, does not make me ignorant or, a liar. So, he must in fact have proof to the contrary of what I'm saying.
No, he only needs proof if he makes a claim of fact. He did not. You have repeatedly made claims, and without proof. There is nothing wrong with his pointing that out.

They are very simple rules, and they have served science and logic very well for centuries.
This is no doubt your claim, and it's the kind of double-speak one goes up against when confronting the establishment. Remember this ... I am David; you are Goliath.
This is my analysis of your claim. When you have made your arguments, I and others have dissected them. That is not a claim on our part, that is a response to a claim on yours.

Oh, and David? Evidence and Logic are a better slingshot than dreams and numerology. If you actually pay attention to the dissections of your claims, and respond to them appropriately, your claim will either be stronger or will be exposed as worthless.

Science is full of examples of a new idea, initially seen as heresy, eventually gaining acceptance because it had evidence and logic on its side. "Confronting the establishment" is the natural course of things. If your ideas are crap, don't blame the process.
 
Whether he is able to assess what I say is true or not, does not make me ignorant or, a liar. So, he must in fact have proof to the contrary of what I'm saying.
No, you must prove that what you are saying is true. It is not up to others to prove your harebrained musings incorrect. Besides, your ideas are internally contradictory, so there is no need to prove them wrong. They are nonsensical. It would be like asking someone to prove that "This sentence is a lie," is wrong.

This is no doubt your claim, and it's the kind of double-speak one goes up against when confronting the establishment. Remember this ... I am David; you are Goliath.
LOL. Is that what this is all about? You want to be the hero who challenges the establishment and wins victory against all odds? Well Davy-Poo, science is littered with the corpses of ideas that didn't cut it. From N-rays to Lamaarkism to creationism, bad ideas are sorted out using evidence. Sure, lots of ideas are originally unpopular, but gain support as they gain evidence. Unless you learn science (and learning is a concept you reject), you cannot even give the slightest hint of evidence to your ideas because you don't even know what evidence is. All you are doing is repeating (endlessly) your personal feelings.

Your sling is empty, little man.
 
No, he only needs proof if he makes a claim of fact. He did not. You have repeatedly made claims, and without proof. There is nothing wrong with his pointing that out.
Which, is why I'm asking whether he is willing to assert it one way or the other, otherwise he shouldn't be claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about? What, are you that dense or, is it pathological?

They are very simple rules, and they have served science and logic very well for centuries.

This is my analysis of your claim. When you have made your arguments, I and others have dissected them. That is not a claim on our part, that is a response to a claim on yours.
While it is quite possible that, due to the fact that everyone is wearing their "scientific blinders," they may be suffering from a lack of peripheral vision. But, since our "master of reality," Science, tells us to do so, we insist on wearing them.

Oh, and David? Evidence and Logic are a better slingshot than dreams and numerology. If you actually pay attention to the dissections of your claims, and respond to them appropriately, your claim will either be stronger or will be exposed as worthless.
And all it takes is one well placed pebble. Perhaps Goliath wasn't even aware of what hit him?

Science is full of examples of a new idea, initially seen as heresy, eventually gaining acceptance because it had evidence and logic on its side. "Confronting the establishment" is the natural course of things. If your ideas are crap, don't blame the process.
Yes, and we stand a lot to gain or lose, when we become "entrenched" in our views.
 
No, you must prove that what you are saying is true. It is not up to others to prove your harebrained musings incorrect. Besides, your ideas are internally contradictory, so there is no need to prove them wrong. They are nonsensical. It would be like asking someone to prove that "This sentence is a lie," is wrong.
And forgive me for saying so, but you're full of rubbish!

LOL. Is that what this is all about? You want to be the hero who challenges the establishment and wins victory against all odds?
It doesn't matter, the truth is the truth.

Well Davy-Poo, science is littered with the corpses of ideas that didn't cut it.
Yours perhaps? ;)

From N-rays to Lamaarkism to creationism, bad ideas are sorted out using evidence. Sure, lots of ideas are originally unpopular, but gain support as they gain evidence. Unless you learn science (and learning is a concept you reject), you cannot even give the slightest hint of evidence to your ideas because you don't even know what evidence is.
So, what then, are you dismissing "any" evidence that God exists or, is it just my arguments in particular?

All you are doing is repeating (endlessly) your personal feelings.
In other words I'm full of crap, right? Or, are you trying to "lead" me to believe something else?

Your sling is empty, little man.
And it is not I who casts the stone, "big boy."
 
Which, is why I'm asking whether he is willing to assert it one way or the other, otherwise he shouldn't be claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about? What, are you that dense or, is it pathological?
Why should he have to assert something for which there is no conceivable evidence? That would be a faith-based claim, which is what yours is, rather than a claim about the real world. You keep getting those confused. He can very easily say that you don't know what you are talking about (as Trixie said, both your lack of internal logic and your contradictions with observed evidence point to the conclusion that your claims, when comprehensible at all, are baseless).

When there is evidence, we can assert. When there is none, there is no reason to make a claim. It hasn't stopped you, but frankly, your rules don't apply.
While it is quite possible that, due to the fact that everyone is wearing their "scientific blinders," they may be suffering from a lack of peripheral vision. But, since our "master of reality," Science, tells us to do so, we insist on wearing them.
Quite possible? Not terribly probable, considering the fame and fortune that comes along with a new discovery. There is much more incentive to be the one to peek past the blinders than there is to keep them on.
And all it takes is one well placed pebble. Perhaps Goliath wasn't even aware of what hit him?
And a pebble, even a pebble, is real. Do you have even a pebble? No, not so far.
Yes, and we stand a lot to gain or lose, when we become "entrenched" in our views.
You should know. I have never seen anyone so entrenched.
 
So, you can't accuse me of appealing to popularity then, huh?
I would never accuse you of appealing to anybody.



Ok, this thread is beyond toast. buh-bye. If it gets back on track, I'll be back.
 
I would never accuse you of appealing to anybody.

Ok, this thread is beyond toast. buh-bye. If it gets back on track, I'll be back.
What's the matter Mercky boy, the water's getting a little bit too Mercky for you? :D

Actually, I think the thread has wound up right where you wanted it to be, except perhaps for one or two cans of worms at the end here. And what do you mean by, "If it gets back on track, I'll be back." What, to derail it, as you seem to have the "special knack" of doing?
 
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And forgive me for saying so, but you're full of rubbish!
I forgive you. Flames from you are no more than a trifle. I wish you could do better, but that would take some wit.

It doesn't matter, the truth is the truth.
The truth has evidence. Without evidence, it is faith. You have a lot of the latter, none of the former.

Yours perhaps?
Perhaps. I've had some bad ideas in my time. I learned from them. Learning is a good thing, Iacchus. You should try it some time.

So, what then, are you dismissing "any" evidence that God exists or, is it just my arguments in particular?
I don't dismiss any evidence. Claims, however, are not evidence. I don't dismiss all circular claims though. I give the claimant ample opportunity to learn why their claims are nonsensical or come up with better evidence. You've had more than enough chances. You seem to have no interest in learning, so I consider you fair game for ridicule. If you truly were a seeker of knowledge rather than a willfully ignorant, repetitive, self-centered whiner, I'd treat you much differently.

In other words I'm full of crap, right?
Finally, you got one of your "in other words" correct!:clap:

Or, are you trying to "lead" me to believe something else?
I don't have much hope for you. I just want to make sure others to see how anemic your beliefs are. But if by some miracle, you decided to start to study that of which you speak with self-ascribed authority, or if you suddenly sought evidence for your claims, then I would be very happy for you. It could turn your life around. I don't rejoice in your ignorance, Iacchus. Really.

And it is not I who casts the stone, "big boy."
So you are not "David" as you claimed earlier? Well, it wouldn't be the first time you have contradicted yourself. I suspect it won't be the last.
 
36 Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.

37 David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee. ~ 1 Samuel 17:36-37
And might I suggest it's simply a matter of how you look at it?
 
Well, let's just say the truth has a way of hitting its mark. ;)

:dl:

The day you post "truth" here will be a cold day inna hot place. Say, Phoenix, AZ....-70 deg f. Without windchill.

In this volume of posts, you have yet to proove anything (other than the fact that you can only speak in circles, answer no questions dierctly and self-aggrandize). We have asked you for evidence, you return innunedo; we ask for clarity, you return with obfuscation and yet you claim to represent the truth? HAHAHA from what I have seen here (and a couple of other threads you're on) you seem to only be interested in seeing your idiotic dolphin on these forums.
 
Which is to say, you freely admit that a designer does not exist, correct? Do you have any proof? Surely, your implications that I don't know what I'm talking about is not the criteria to be used in determining whether something actually exists or not is it? How scientific is that? ;)

I never said such a thing here. You said that, because the universe is consistent, there is a designer. I said that that's a huge leap. I never said that there is NO designer. I said that consistency is no argument in favor of one.
 
Which is to say, the non-existence of a designer has already been established. This in fact is what you believe, correct?

Again, I never said such a thing. I'm merely saying that the fact you want humans to be more than the sum of their parts doesn't necessarily make it so.

If, in fact there was a designer (supreme conscious being), then everything by necessity, must entail some element of consciousnes.

I find this statement ridiculous. A conscious designer couldn't design inanimate, non-conscious objects ? I think he could create a universe without any form of consciousness whatsoever.
 

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