Hawking says there are no gods

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There are at least 3 position on what the universe actually is as for the universe is...
The universe is X and not Y.
The universe is Y and not X.
One of those above is with logic a belief, so it is possible not to know what the universe is and still have a life. I choose to state that what I say about the universe is a belief, because it is a fact, that I can do so.

It is that simple. I don't need to know what the universe is, because I don't really need it. That some of you need that is psychology. Just as it is psychology that I don't need it. We are just different and how we deal with that, is different.

For all versions of what the universe/reality/everything is, 99+% appears to be false as a contradiction for all cases of science, philosophy, religion, politics, woo, CT and what not down to X is Y or X is not Y.
It appears to be a case of special pleading to claim that you as a group can do what all other humans can't do. Further you end up getting in trouble with Ockham's Razor, because you need a double explanation. You are different that all other humans, that is added complexity. Nobody else knows what reality is, so neither do you. That is the simple version.
 
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Darat said:
Which of course has nothing everything to do with the point being made.

There is no chair in the room at this point in time, and it doesn't matter what science "says" or religion "says" there is no chair in the room at this point in time.

No matter how right or wrong "science" may be, or how right or wrong "religion" may be it does not alter the fact there is no chair in the room at this point in time.
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ftfy.
 
Darat said:
Rubbish. If a god is defined, if it has properties that allow it to interact with the world like all the gods people actually claim to believe in then yes science can say a lot about that god. Which is why we know Zeus doesn't exist, why we know the god of the RCC doesn't exist and so on.
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I can only repeat my earlier post:
psionl0 said:
What scientific test settles the question?

All you are saying is "God doesn't exist therefore science agrees with me".
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Tommy Jeppesen said:
It appears to be a case of special pleading to claim that you as a group can do what all other humans can't do.
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Nobody claims that they can't. Except you. You claim that nobody can.

Further you end up getting in trouble with Ockham's Razor, because you need a double explanation.
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No, you're the one with the double (pseudo-)explanation.

You are different that all other humans, that is added complexity.
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Yes, we're all different. And so what? Do you actually doubt that we're all different? What's wrong with complexity? Reality is complex - sometimes more than others.


Nobody else knows what reality is, so (!) neither do you. That is the simple version.
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Why do you seem to think that you know this? And to the extent that you're so adamant about it? This is the contradiction in terms of your statement: 'I know for a fact that you can't know anything!'
You're not only wrong, but you also claim to be an exception to your own rule: That nobody knows what reality is. You claim to know that you're right about at least that part of reality - even though you aren't.
By the way: the reality of what exactly? That some characters are fictitious is a well-known fact, and it's one that everybody knows. Even very small children get the idea: They usually know that Donald Duck is a cartoon character and thus unreal even when they still believe in Santa.
It is actually possible to know stuff so the one thing that you think and claim that you know is the one thing you are most wrong about.
 
psionl0 said:
I can only repeat my earlier post:
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Which is still rubbish.

Science has provided the tools to create the technology that means we know there is no palace on Mt Olympus, which means thanks to science we know Zeus doesn't exist.

There is still no chair in the room no matter how much you want to claim there could be a chair in the room and that science can't tell us there is no chair in the room.
 
Darat said:
All there is whatever there is.
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But all is not singular, that is an artifact of language and of all people, you should know this.
"You are wrong" is no different than "the universe is...".
The universe is not a thing, it is a set of... and that includes cognitive relativism. I.e. that you and I think differently and yet we are both parts of the set of what the universe is..., no matter how much you insist that I am rare.
That there are not many general skeptics is not in itself an argument for or against anything.
The majority doesn't automatically have it right. If that was the case, gods would exist.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
But all is not singular, that is an artifact of language and of all people, you should know this.
"You are wrong" is no different than "the universe is...".
The universe is not a thing, it is a set of... and that includes cognitive relativism. I.e. that you and I think differently and yet we are both parts of the set of what the universe is..., no matter how much you insist that I am rare.
That there are not many general skeptics is not in itself an argument for or against anything.
The majority doesn't automatically have it right. If that was the case, gods would exist.
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All there is is what there is.

You can build whatever castles in the sky you want, it will not matter one iota as to what there is.
 
Darat said:
Which is still rubbish.

Science has provided the tools to create the technology that means we know there is no palace on Mt Olympus, which means thanks to science we know Zeus doesn't exist.

There is still no chair in the room no matter how much you want to claim there could be a chair in the room and that science can't tell us there is no chair in the room.
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Inside and outside the universe. Start reading Hawking and you will find he talked about outside the universe.
"I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science," Hawking, who died in March, wrote. "If you accept, as I do, that the laws of nature are fixed, then it doesn't take long to ask: What role is there for God?"
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That is the claim that there is nothing outside the universe.
I believe that too, but that is a belief. It rests on thinking as "I think...".
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Inside and outside the universe. Start reading Hawking and you will find he talked about outside the universe.
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That's nice he also read bedtime books and wore a red jersey occasionally. Equally a non-sequitur to what I posted.
Tommy Jeppesen said:
That is the claim that there is nothing outside the universe.
I believe that too, but that is a belief. It rests on thinking as "I think...".
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There is whatever there is.
 
Darat said:
All there is is what there is.

You can build whatever castles in the sky you want, it will not matter one iota as to what there is.
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Correct, that applies to us both. That you don't believe in an unmoved mover creator god doesn't settle whether there is one or not.
I am honest about the limitations of human knowledge. You seem to be unaware.
 
JoeMorgue said:
You've seen exactly as many Gods as you've seen Invisible Garage Dragons.
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Seen is a limited human behavior, just like reason, logic and evidence.

"I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science," Hawking, who died in March, wrote. "If you accept, as I do, that the laws of nature are fixed, then it doesn't take long to ask: What role is there for God?"
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You seem unable to understand that Hawking talked about outside of the universe; i.e. "the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing".
Now you just have to tell us, how you know about something outside the universe.
The only theoretical being we know of, who can do that, is God. So you are God. Well, I don't believe in you.
 
JoeMorgue said:
What scientific test settles the question of a magic invisible dragon in my garage?
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Perhaps that's why I can't see the chair in your garage - the invisible magic dragon is sat on it!

The scales* fall from my eyes.




*presumably from the invisible dragon. ;)
 
Darat said:
Perhaps that's why I can't see the chair in your garage - the invisible magic dragon is sat on it!

The scales* fall from my eyes.




*presumably from the invisible dragon. ;)
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Inside and outside are not same.
"I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science," Hawking, who died in March, wrote. "If you accept, as I do, that the laws of nature are fixed, then it doesn't take long to ask: What role is there for God?"
That is a claim of outside.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Inside and outside are not same.
"I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science," Hawking, who died in March, wrote. "If you accept, as I do, that the laws of nature are fixed, then it doesn't take long to ask: What role is there for God?"
That is a claim of outside.
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No that is not a claim of outside. It is a claim that there was nothing, then there was something.
 
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