Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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ceptimus said:
You've not addressed my question of, if they're so important, why weren't they started *MUCH* earlier?

According to that Wikipedia page you linked to, there are no EU trade agreements with China, Brazil, nor USA; there is a trade agreement with Chile, however. I'm pretty certain that the EU does a lot more trade with each of the three countries I listed than it does with Chile. Shows how vital these trade agreements really are.

Edit: changed Japan to Brazil, because the Wiki page says there has been a deal signed with Japan - though for some reason it's not actually applied yet.

Edit2: there are lots of countries the EU trades with, which are also missing from that list: Australia, New Zealand, India, ... Seems that trade is miraculously able to happen even without these wonderful trade agreements. The Wiki page says the EU has belatedly begun negotiations with some of these countries. In another seven or eight years, if the EU still exists, maybe the agreements will come into force.
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It didn't happen much earlier (well as by at least as much) because individual trade deals up to around 2000 were less of a focus for trade negotiators than the various GATT and then WTO rounds. However, with the latest Doha round starting back in 2001 and not still being finalised individual deals between countries or groups of countries have become increasingly important to get partially around this impasse.
 
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Wudang said:
Russia and other countries object to UK WTO proposals.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-moves-to-block-uk-s-vision-for-world-trade-m8025tqss

And so does Moldova because they're annoyed their trade team couldn't get visas to the UK despite months of trying.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...a-s-brexit-grudge-could-cost-u-k-1-7-trillion
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Well, there's a surprise.
Isn't this the sort of thing that was brought up waaaay back when as a likelihood of falling back to WTO rules? Oh yes, it was.
I have no doubt it was classed as Project Fear back then as well...
 
ceptimus said:
This explains why the EU does virtually no trade with China. :D
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Are you suggesting the UK should copy the Chinese approach to trade? Low quality, low price, low wage economy?

You have picked probably the 1 country in the world that is probably the most special case and probably the most different to the UK in terms of what it offers and how it operates. Well done. You probably couldn't be any more wrong. Putting your pants on your head and shouting 'God save our unicorn overlords' would make more sense.
 
I think some Brit Exiters think the UK is still a massive Industrial Superpower before whose economic might the world trembles.
I got news for them" that might have been true during the Victorian Era, but Queen Victoria is dead and the industrial might of the UK ain't what it used to be.
 
dudalb said:
I think some Brit Exiters think the UK is still a massive Industrial Superpower before whose economic might the world trembles.
I got news for them" that might have been true during the Victorian Era, but Queen Victoria is dead and the industrial might of the UK ain't what it used to be.
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A news report on Farrage showed someone saying we should go back to the British Empire. That may be problematic.
 
Wudang said:
A news report on Farrage showed someone saying we should go back to the British Empire. That may be problematic.
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And that, I'm afraid, was a fair part of the 'leave' mindset - a desire to return to a totally unattainable era. A "Golden Age" or some other old codswallop.
 
ceptimus said:
You've not addressed my question of, if they're so important, why weren't they started *MUCH* earlier?
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Because negotiating two deals at one makes both harder. Any concession you give one potential partner may change what the prospective partner in the other deal is willing to agree to. Successfully negotiating 3 large deals simultaneously may well be impossible.
 
GlennB said:
And that, I'm afraid, was a fair part of the 'leave' mindset - a desire to return to a totally unattainable era. A "Golden Age" or some other old codswallop.
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I would love to see how they would force all those ex colonies..like India, Pakistan, South Africa, Nigeria, Malaya....back in the Empire though.
The sun set on the British empire a long time ago.
 
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dudalb said:
I would love to see how they would force all those ex colonies..like India, Pakistan, South Africa, Nigeria, Malaya....back in the Empire though.
The sun set on the British empire a long time ago.
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How very dare you!

The Falkland Islands are the Jewel in the Crown
 
GlennB said:
And that, I'm afraid, was a fair part of the 'leave' mindset - a desire to return to a totally unattainable era. A "Golden Age" or some other old codswallop.
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I think a lot of people think leaving the EU means returning to how things were before we joined the EU and fail to appreciate that things have moved on since then. It's not the same world we are in.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I think a lot of people think leaving the EU means returning to how things were before we joined the EU and fail to appreciate that things have moved on since then. It's not the same world we are in.
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Well they might be right. IIRC the economy of the UK was failing, its industries outdated and it needed massive EU subsidies to get back on its feet, which was the main reason the UK joined in the first place.
That might be what returns.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I think a lot of people think leaving the EU means returning to how things were before we joined the EU and fail to appreciate that things have moved on since then. It's not the same world we are in.
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Yes, a recurring theme with older callers into 'Any Answers' (particularly if anyone suggests that younger people have more to lose from Brexit) is that their opinion should carry more weight because they lived outside the EU prior to Britain joining. Apparently the young are just scared of the unknown...:rolleyes:
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Well they might be right. IIRC the economy of the UK was failing, its industries outdated and it needed massive EU subsidies to get back on its feet, which was the main reason the UK joined in the first place.
That might be what returns.
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You're probably thinking of the IMF bailout. I think it was the only time the IMF bailed out a developed country until Greece.

The EC was hugely important in turning the failing UK around but not by giving subsidies.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I think a lot of people think leaving the EU means returning to how things were before we joined the EU and fail to appreciate that things have moved on since then. It's not the same world we are in.
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No women allowed in the stock exchange.
Bloody Sunday (1972).
Rioting in London.
Miners in strike.
Jury service limited to householders.
Bloody Friday (1972)
Dockers on strike.
Deportation of Asians from Uganda to Britain.
Government price and wage freezes.
 
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