Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

[Dr. Keith]

Even if it was simply the ability to tell Harvard "yes" when they asked to change her status, that would qualify as a "brownie point" to me. So yes.

Back to the cookbook? Really?

 

[bytewizard]

How will Native American, Cherokee tribe member Elizabeth Warren be able to vote in the upcoming midterm elections? Hope she has a street address and valid ID.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

How will Native American, Cherokee tribe member Elizabeth Warren be able to vote in the upcoming midterm elections? Hope she has a street address and valid ID.

 

[smartcooky]

Hmmm, it seems I am the bad guy here for pointing out Warren's racist, stupid stunt and comprehensively quoting and citing sources demonstrating why Warren's stupid racist stunt was not "irrelevant.".

No, you're the "bad guy" (your words, not mine) when you do all of the above, and then forgive and ignore, and indeed JUSTIFY the "racist, stupid" (your words, not mine) things done by Dear Leader, to whom you have unconditionally devoted yourself.

 

[The Big Dog]

No, you're the "bad guy" (your words, not mine) when you do all of the above, and then forgive and ignore, and indeed JUSTIFY the "racist, stupid" (your words, not mine) things done by Dear Leader, to whom you have unconditionally devoted yourself.

Golly folks, I really think that what we have here is a serial:

NO, YOU ARE THE BAD GUY

rather than, ya know, actually criticizing warren's racist and stupid stunt.

Oh well, I betcha a nickel we are going to get lots more b-b-b-b-bbbbbbiut Trump before we get the slightest criticism of Warren from "Down Under."

 

[lionking]

Golly folks, I really think that what we have here is a serial:

NO, YOU ARE THE BAD GUY

rather than, ya know, actually criticizing warren's racist and stupid stunt.

Oh well, I betcha a nickel we are going to get lots more b-b-b-b-bbbbbbiut Trump before we get the slightest criticism of Warren from "Down Under."

Wow. This post is stupid beyond belief.

You really want to keep Trump out of this discussion? And you expect others to comply with this wish of yours?

Unbelievable.

 

[The Big Dog]

Wow. This post is stupid beyond belief.

You really want to keep Trump out of this discussion? And you expect others to comply with this wish of yours?

Unbelievable.

Damn, that is some next level strawmanning, yo!

It is cool, we'll mark that down as yet another B-b-b-but trump, while ignoring

Warren's stupid and racist stunt.

Hmm, as suggested by Kim Tall Bear up above, perhaps Warren's apologists and their whitesplaining are a wee bit racist?

 

[WilliamSeger]

Trump made Elizabeth Warren do that idiotic racist stunt.

She is definitely Presidential material, folks! She got ******* played by Donald Trump.

Oh, there ya go! I knew you could do it! Warren's response to Trump's idiotic racist stunt -- calling his bluff -- proves that Trump is, like, really smart and has a huge, a, brain, and is definitely presidential material after scamming people his whole life. But really, that phony outrage doesn't look good on you -- it makes your ass look fat.

 

[Tero]

Suppose a baby got dumped on the steps of a hospital next to a Cherokee reservation, that baby could not be tested for DNA to decide if it should be placed with a native or white family? But just testing it for DNA would immediately make it not Cherokee?

 

[Vixen]

Yes. The line which that comment came from was talking about how DNA couldn't be used to establish lineage to a particular tribe. He was emphasizing that you couldn't tell an Inca from an Iroquois, much less a Cherokee from a Choctaw. (I don't know if that's a true statement, by the way. I just think that's what he was saying.)

Of course, membership in any tribe has nothing to do with Elizabeth Warren, but it's not the only irrelevant thing being brought up in this thread or in the general discussion in news sources about this topic.

Today's DNA testing can pinpoint exactly which 'tribe' you are from.

I used to be sceptical of DNA tests, which is why I never had one until I was urged to so that someone could get a 'recommend a friend' cashback.

I was impressed that it managed to pinpoint my DNA precisely. Wow. If it can do that for remote regions in a Eurasian continent crowded with 721 million people of hundreds of ethnicities, I feel sure it can differentiate NA tribes, who are likely to be relatively homogenous amongst themselves.

Irish guy on tele was accurately pinpointed to where he came from in Norn Iron.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Suppose a baby got dumped on the steps of a hospital next to a Cherokee reservation, that baby could not be tested for DNA to decide if it should be placed with a native or white family? But just testing it for DNA would immediately make it not Cherokee?

The Heisenokee Uncertainty Principle. You changed the ethnicity of the baby by measuring it!

 

[Vixen]

Ok. I haven't followed this closely enough. Is that what she really claimed? I'll do a bit of googling myself, but if anyone could post a link that referred to a place where she said, before Trump's "bet", that her Indian ancestry was a single ancestor that many generations ago, then I think there would be a point.


I had heard that she claimed a Native American ethnicity on demographic forms, and that her parents had to elope because of anti-Indian prejudice. That doesn't sound much like one ancestor six generations ago to me, but I'll see what I can find.

It's come to light that she lied about her parents having to elope. Nope. They had a big traditional church wedding, and he had just turned twenty-one, so there was no 'long hard struggle' for acceptance.

It's one lie too many, and makes me think she is someone who thinks nothing of lying and cheating for personal gain.

Well, OK, I'll be charitable and say fair enough, perhaps she is mad rather than bad. However, she really needs to retract her claims, apologise and step down.

 

[Stacyhs]

Ok. I haven't followed this closely enough. Is that what she really claimed? I'll do a bit of googling myself, but if anyone could post a link that referred to a place where she said, before Trump's "bet", that her Indian ancestry was a single ancestor that many generations ago, then I think there would be a point.


I had heard that she claimed a Native American ethnicity on demographic forms, and that her parents had to elope because of anti-Indian prejudice. That doesn't sound much like one ancestor six generations ago to me, but I'll see what I can find.

Bustamante, a prominent expert in the field of DNA analysis, determined Warren's pure Native American ancestor appears "in the range of six to 10 generations ago."


That meshes with Warren's narrative that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American. That would make Warren 1/32nd Native American.

Warren never claimed that her NA ancestor was recent, but only that the family had "Cherokee lineage".

I think we have to consider the time period that Warren is talking about regarding her father's family views on Indian blood. Warren's parents were born in 1911 and 1912 so his parents were Victorians. Attitudes about "white people" mixing with any minority race were very negative, including those having "savages' blood" as they would most likely have considered it. So his family not wanting their son to marry someone who was believed to have Indian blood would likely have been very normal at the time. Hell, in 1946 my own grandmother's second husband's family was incensed that she wasn't Italian and never let her forget it.

 

[Vixen]

Most tribes require that you have at least 1/4, and some up to 1/16 blood to become part of the tribe. But they also have coinciding requirements of lineage. You must be able to show you are related to someone on the original lists of tribe members.

The strict requirements have not prevented others from claiming Cherokee decent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamake_Highwater

and of course, the famous Cherokee who cried a tear for the environment in that old commercial...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody

[qimg]https://i.giphy.com/media/12SBwtRR9BnWg/giphy.webp[/qimg]

Even medieval Scandinavian law (Swedish) said that only someone who was a bloodline family member could claim compensation (blood money) from a perp who murders someone of your bloodline. In other words, a spouse could not (but could claim for the loss of a bed partner, if the wife). [Source: Heikki Ylikangas; Five Centuries of Violence in Finland and the Baltic Area]

In addition citizenship was reliant on your mother's bloodline.

IOW to claim kinship, you need to prove a bloodline relationship.

Warren cannot actually do this, so of course the Native American Nation does not recognise her.

 

[Stacyhs]

Today's DNA testing can pinpoint exactly which 'tribe' you are from..

That is not true. DNA tests cannot determine which tribe a person is related to.

Another issue is the widespread belief that genetics can help determine specific tribal affinities of either living or ancient people. This is quite simply false. Neighboring tribes have long-standing, complex relationships involving intermarriage, raiding, adoption, splitting, and joining. These social-historical forces insure that there cannot be any clear-cut genetic variants differentiating all the members of one tribe from those of nearby tribes. At most, slight differences in the proportions of certain genetic variations are identifiable in each group, but those do not permit specific individuals to be assigned to particular groups.

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=163

It's come to light that she lied about her parents having to elope. Nope. They had a big traditional church wedding, and he had just turned twenty-one, so there was no 'long hard struggle' for acceptance.
It' one lie too many and makes me think she is someone who thinks of nothing of lying and cheating for personal gain.

Well, OK, I'll be charitable and say fair enough, perhaps she is mad rather than bad. However, she really needs to retract her claims, apologise and step down.

Evidence of this please.

 

[Vixen]

I guess the main point for me is that you don't check the box claiming Native American minority status, simply because Great Uncle Ernie thought he heard something about a great great great grandmother being discriminated against, from his 4th cousin at a Bat Mitzvah.

It's slimy as can be. Taking away a true Native American's potential position in that directory, when you went through school, and practice, as a caucasian, recieving all of those privileges, but when you want to network with people interested in meeting a minority law professor, you put Native American next to your name.

A sporting analogy would be a male athlete posing as female, or one tanked up to the eyeballs on illicit steroids.

It's called cheating.

 

[Stacyhs]

Most tribes require that you have at least 1/4, and some up to 1/16 blood to become part of the tribe. But they also have coinciding requirements of lineage. You must be able to show you are related to someone on the original lists of tribe members.
The strict requirements have not prevented others from claiming Cherokee decent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamake_Highwater

and of course, the famous Cherokee who cried a tear for the environment in that old commercial...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody

[qimg]https://i.giphy.com/media/12SBwtRR9BnWg/giphy.webp[/qimg]

If you are referring to the Dawes Rolls, not all Cherokee, Creeks, et al were listed. My own 4X great grandmother was not listed but she was Creek and died in Oklahoma in 1908.

During the late 1800s and early 1900s, many Native Americans did not join tribal rolls for a host of complex reasons, including residency requirements, fear of discrimination, and opposition to land allotment policies.

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/09/15/elizabeth-warren-family-native-american-heritage

 

[Vixen]

Citation that there is a quota or limit on the number of Native Americans in that directory? Because, if there isn't the part about "taking away a true Native American's potential position in that directory" is pure, unadulterated ********.

It's positive discrimination. It gave Harvard the opportunity to brag it's fulfilled its quota of ethnics, so doesn't need to take on any more.

So the real ethnic has lost out to an unscrupulous cheat.

 

[Vixen]

To be fair, there were only two Native American women to ever exist. The other was Sacagawea, but that's harder to pronounce.

Don't forget Hiawatha.

...Or Running Bear and pretty li'l White Dove.

With a love as big as the sky.

 

[Vixen]

I don't think that is quite accurate. Lately she has been referring to it as her heritage. That isn't the same as claiming to be that thing. She did claim minority status 20 years ago. People were less woke about racial issues at the time. That's why we have the term woke now.

'Heritage' is the new euphemism for 'race'.