Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Belz... said:
I thought it was well-established that her DNA was compared to, in part, markers from Peruvians. Several news sources left and right reported this; for example the Atlantic. So while it establishes that she has NA ancestry, to a reasonable degree, it doesn't link her to the Cherokee.
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Her DNA was compared to Peruvians and Mexicans and First Nation People in Canada. This made her, per your claim Peruvian how, again? Or wrong about having a Cherokee ancestor how, again?
 
wareyin said:
Her DNA was compared to Peruvians and Mexicans and First Nation People in Canada. This made her, per your claim Peruvian how, again? Or wrong about having a Cherokee ancestor how, again?
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Per my claim? What claim?

I think you misunderstood my points there. What I said is that one can hold such an opinion, that her Cherokee claim has not be substantiated, without being on a specific "side" of the debate, in addition to holding other reasonable opinions that may come from any "side". A second point is that comparing her markers to Peruvian ones kind of makes it hard to determine if she has any Cherokee in her. I didn't say she was Peruvian.
 
Drewbot said:
Will a blood test or DNA test prove AI/AN ancestry?
Blood tests and DNA tests will not help an individual document his or her descent from a
specific Federally recognized tribe or tribal community.

The BIA does not regulate businesses that perform such tests, and does not validate their findings nor accept their results as proof that an individual possesses blood quantum from a particular tribe. The only value blood tests and DNA tests hold for persons trying to trace ancestry to aparticular tribe is that testing, if the tribe accepts it, can establish if an individual is biologically related to a tribal member. Check directly with the tribe you are seeking to enroll to find out if it will accept a blood test or DNA test as part of its enrollment application process.

https://www.bia.gov/sites/bia_prod....c/pdf/Guide_to_Tracing_AI_and_AN_Ancestry.pdf
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The highlighted part is the most important part of this sentence. The DNA test scientifically proves Warren does have Native American ancestry, as she has maintained. The DNA test is somewhat more marginal as to North American versus South American, but is more consistent with North American, again consistent with Warren's family story. The family story is more specific than that, that their heritage was Cherokee. As in your quote, DNA testing in general lacks the further resolution to map people to specific tribes. But notably although it does not (cannot) confirm the family story of Cherokee, neither does it deny it. Her Native American ancestry may well be Cherokee.

But as pointed out upthread many times, Warren is not seeking legal status as a member of a specific tribe.The rules for that depend on each tribe and are typically highly contentious and involve far more than a genetic connection. Warren is maintaining only that a part of her own self-identity, based on her family's knowledge, is Native American and she was told that it was Cherokee. And that has been proven to the extent currently possible by DNA testing.
 
I thought Peru was mostly Japanese now? I hope Warren-san doesn't put much faith in her family's legend of descent from the imperial family. Lots of white Oklahoman girls were Shinto shrine maidens when young, I don't think anything can be read into it.
 
Belz... said:
Per my claim? What claim?

I think you misunderstood my points there. What I said is that one can hold such an opinion, that her Cherokee claim has not be substantiated, without being on a specific "side" of the debate, in addition to holding other reasonable opinions that may come from any "side". A second point is that comparing her markers to Peruvian ones kind of makes it hard to determine if she has any Cherokee in her. I didn't say she was Peruvian.
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Yes, but neither has it been ruled out. That question is beyond the limits of the DNA test to determine. Her family story in this regard may still be 100% correct.
 
Giordano said:
The DNA test scientifically proves Warren does have Native American ancestry, as she has maintained.
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wrong, it shows that there is an insignificant overlap between her results and results of people who chose to be included in the database, which do not include significant numbers of natives from the USA.

It is therefore not scientific because the data base is not scientific.

Amazed that people do not understand the difference between scientific DNA test results and comparing that result to a data base that was not collected scientifically.
 
Giordano said:
Yes, but neither has it been ruled out. That question is beyond the limits of the DNA test to determine. Her family story in this regard may still be 100% correct.
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A DNA test will never tell you that, and the database does not contain NA/USA data that will enable anyone to draw that conclusion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty.
 
So, to sum up my thoughts after this very interesting and eye opening (seriously, I think it is) discussion:

It was kinda dumb for Elizabeth Warren to ever hold herself out to be a minority or claim connection to the Cherokee people. She only had her family lore to go on and we all know, based on our own experiences, how tenuous that lore can be. It is obvious that Warren herself never really made that big a deal of it -checking a box is pretty meaningless. There is no evidence that she ever gained anything from it other than, perhaps, a write up by Harvard touting their own diversity. Releasing this DNA test was a dumb move when she should have just left well enough alone and never spoken publicly about her ethnicity again. Rise above it, so to speak.

However, as dumb as it was, it cannot be argued -in my view- that Elizabeth Warren is a bad person; in fact, I'd say she's a pretty great person even if I disagree with some of her political positions. One good thing that has come of this is that I've had a chance to really look at Warren and her life and career. We should be proud to have her as a legislator because she, herself, has lived a distinguished life. Isn't she the kind of person we WANT in office? Someone who has served admirably and done some pretty great things, especially in her efforts towards consumer protection. That's what matters, her own experience and accomplishments, not the ethnicity of a distant ancestor -that is a total non-issue.

What I have learned is that we need to stop allowing ourselves, myself included, to become distracted by these kinds of irrelevant issues. Nothing will ever get better by continuing to engage this nonsense. I apologize for calling her a liar. I apologize for getting mixed up in this, ultimately, stupid and irrelevant debate over ethnicity.
 
xjx388 said:
So, to sum up my thoughts after this very interesting and eye opening (seriously, I think it is) discussion:

It was kinda dumb for Elizabeth Warren to ever hold herself out to be a minority or claim connection to the Cherokee people. She only had her family lore to go on and we all know, based on our own experiences, how tenuous that lore can be. It is obvious that Warren herself never really made that big a deal of it -checking a box is pretty meaningless. There is no evidence that she ever gained anything from it other than, perhaps, a write up by Harvard touting their own diversity. Releasing this DNA test was a dumb move when she should have just left well enough alone and never spoken publicly about her ethnicity again. Rise above it, so to speak.

However, as dumb as it was, it cannot be argued -in my view- that Elizabeth Warren is a bad person; in fact, I'd say she's a pretty great person even if I disagree with some of her political positions. One good thing that has come of this is that I've had a chance to really look at Warren and her life and career. We should be proud to have her as a legislator because she, herself, has lived a distinguished life. Isn't she the kind of person we WANT in office? Someone who has served admirably and done some pretty great things, especially in her efforts towards consumer protection. That's what matters, her own experience and accomplishments, not the ethnicity of a distant ancestor -that is a total non-issue.

What I have learned is that we need to stop allowing ourselves, myself included, to become distracted by these kinds of irrelevant issues. Nothing will ever get better by continuing to engage this nonsense. I apologize for calling her a liar. I apologize for getting mixed up in this, ultimately, stupid and irrelevant debate over ethnicity.
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:bigclap
 
xjx388 said:
What I have learned is that we need to stop allowing ourselves, myself included, to become distracted by these kinds of irrelevant issues. Nothing will ever get better by continuing to engage this nonsense. I apologize for calling her a liar. I apologize for getting mixed up in this, ultimately, stupid and irrelevant debate over ethnicity.
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You are aware (of course you are because I have already linked it) that many NAs do not consider Warren's tone deaf stunt to be stupid or irrelevant?

One example

A timely tweet from the same source:

"all my whitesplaining trolls the last 2 days are warren supporters. Indigenous people are not going to just sit down, shut up, and let all of you tell us what are the actual issues we should focus on in your nation built on the blood, bones, and stolen land of Indigenous people."

-Kim Tall Bear
 
xjx388 said:
So, to sum up my thoughts after this very interesting and eye opening (seriously, I think it is) discussion:

It was kinda dumb for Elizabeth Warren to ever hold herself out to be a minority or claim connection to the Cherokee people. She only had her family lore to go on and we all know, based on our own experiences, how tenuous that lore can be. It is obvious that Warren herself never really made that big a deal of it -checking a box is pretty meaningless. There is no evidence that she ever gained anything from it other than, perhaps, a write up by Harvard touting their own diversity. Releasing this DNA test was a dumb move when she should have just left well enough alone and never spoken publicly about her ethnicity again. Rise above it, so to speak.

However, as dumb as it was, it cannot be argued -in my view- that Elizabeth Warren is a bad person; in fact, I'd say she's a pretty great person even if I disagree with some of her political positions. One good thing that has come of this is that I've had a chance to really look at Warren and her life and career. We should be proud to have her as a legislator because she, herself, has lived a distinguished life. Isn't she the kind of person we WANT in office? Someone who has served admirably and done some pretty great things, especially in her efforts towards consumer protection. That's what matters, her own experience and accomplishments, not the ethnicity of a distant ancestor -that is a total non-issue.

What I have learned is that we need to stop allowing ourselves, myself included, to become distracted by these kinds of irrelevant issues. Nothing will ever get better by continuing to engage this nonsense. I apologize for calling her a liar. I apologize for getting mixed up in this, ultimately, stupid and irrelevant debate over ethnicity.
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:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Fake News is turning on Fauxcahontas:


Washington Post: “Elizabeth Warren angers prominent Native Americans with politically fraught DNA test”

CNN: “Elizabeth Warren might have actually made things worse with her DNA gambit”

CBS News: “Elizabeth Warren criticized for releasing DNA report”

Politico (Politico!): “Warren stumbles with ‘Native American’ rollout”

HuffPost: “Why White Americans Love To Claim Native Ancestry”

The Hill: “Dem strategist says Warren taking DNA test was ‘tone deaf'”

New York Times: Elizabeth Warren’s DNA Results Draw Rebuke from Trump and Raise Questions

USA Today: “Cherokee Nation slams Sen. Elizabeth Warren DNA test as ‘inappropriate and wrong'”

Boston Globe: Elizabeth Warren Defends Decision to Release DNA Test



Earlier knee-jerk headlines from Fake News:


ABC News: “Elizabeth Warren reveals proof of Native American ancestry”

AP: “Warren DNA shows Native American heritage”

CNN: “Elizabeth Warren releases DNA test with ‘strong evidence’ of Native American ancestry”

BBC: “Elizabeth Warren: DNA test finds ‘strong evidence’ of Native American blood”

USA Today: “Warren DNA shows Native American heritage”

NBC News: “Elizabeth Warren releases DNA results indicating she has Native American heritage”

Boston Globe: “Warren Reveals test Confirming Ancestry”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...se-to-blast-elizabeth-warren-over-dna-fiasco/
 
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BrooklynBaby said:
Washington Post: “Elizabeth Warren angers prominent Native Americans with politically fraught DNA test”

CNN: “Elizabeth Warren might have actually made things worse with her DNA gambit”

CBS News: “Elizabeth Warren criticized for releasing DNA report”

Politico (Politico!): “Warren stumbles with ‘Native American’ rollout”

HuffPost: “Why White Americans Love To Claim Native Ancestry”

The Hill: “Dem strategist says Warren taking DNA test was ‘tone deaf'”

New York Times: Elizabeth Warren’s DNA Results Draw Rebuke from Trump and Raise Questions

USA Today: “Cherokee Nation slams Sen. Elizabeth Warren DNA test as ‘inappropriate and wrong'”

Boston Globe: Elizabeth Warren Defends Decision to Release DNA Test



Earlier knee-jerk headlines from Fake News:


ABC News: “Elizabeth Warren reveals proof of Native American ancestry”

AP: “Warren DNA shows Native American heritage”

CNN: “Elizabeth Warren releases DNA test with ‘strong evidence’ of Native American ancestry”

BBC: “Elizabeth Warren: DNA test finds ‘strong evidence’ of Native American blood”

USA Today: “Warren DNA shows Native American heritage”

NBC News: “Elizabeth Warren releases DNA results indicating she has Native American heritage”

Boston Globe: “Warren Reveals test Confirming Ancestry”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...se-to-blast-elizabeth-warren-over-dna-fiasco/
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Now now, now that the hammer has come down quite squarely on warren, we are being told that talking about her stunt is "ultimately, stupid and irrelevant" and that warren is a pretty great person.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Do you have the tiniest concept of how ridiculous using Breitbart as a news source is?

You could have said the graffiti in the men's bathroom of a porno theater was turning against Warren and I would have taken that more seriously.
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Do you know how ridiculous that objection is when the article in question contains the actual links to the actual articles?

No, of course not, you did not bother to look.
 
The Big Dog said:
Now now, now that the hammer has come down quite squarely on warren, we are being told that talking about her stunt is "ultimately, stupid and irrelevant" and that warren is a pretty great person.
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Well, isn't she?

Aside from what may be uncharitably called a fib or silly stunt, what has she ever done that could earn her anything but praise and respect?
 
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