Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Drewbot said:
I'm going to defer to the Native American governments.

https://www.cherokee.org/News/Stories/20181015_Cherokee-Nation-responds-to-Senator-Warrens-DNA-test

Kim TallBear from the University of Alberta released a statement as well:[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_197055bc5ec0325c69.jpg[/qimg]
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If Warren were claiming tribal membership, or applying for tribal membership, this post would be relevant. She isn't; it isn't. To defer to it in the context of this discussion is deferring to cluelessness.
 
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johnny karate said:
Since Warren never claimed to be Cherokee, I'm not sure why she would challenge anything the Cherokee Nation has to say about her affiliation with the tribe.
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Sorry, I didn't follow the whole thing on that but... is the recipe thing genuine? If so, why write "Cherokee" there if that wasn't, at least at one time, her claim?
 
johnny karate said:
Since Warren never claimed to be Cherokee, I'm not sure why she would challenge anything the Cherokee Nation has to say about her affiliation with the tribe.
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She identified herself as Cherokee in the recipe book, when she submitted another chef's recipes as her own.

Warren, who has been under fire for claiming Indian lineage despite a lack of documentation, is identified as “Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee” under each of five recipes she contributes in the cookbook, published in 1984 by the Five Civilized Tribes Museum located in Muskogee. Warren is not listed as an official member of the Cherokee tribe and she has been unable thus far to document her claim of any Native American heritage. She offered a recipe on herbed tomatoes, touting them as a “great accompaniment to a plain meat and potatoes meal!” She also included a crab with tomato mayonnaise dressing dish and a Mexican oatmeal soup that included oats, onions, tomatoes and chicken broth. “The soup sounds weird, but everyone who tries it, loves it!” Warren wrote.
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LSSBB said:
They keep ignoring this point. Why is that, do you suppose? If it were an indictment of Trump or his family, would they react differently? I wonder if they ignore it because of cult of party, or cult of personality?
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It's a pretty simple answer: They don't care.

Elizabeth Warren checks the "Native American" box on a form or lists herself as a minority in a some directory - and getting no personal gain or advantage out of it - and the phony outrage machine goes into overdrive.

Kevin McCarthy's family fraudulently claims Cherokee tribal status to swindle millions of dollars, and they can't shrug their shoulders hard enough.

That's how it works for people lacking moral or ethical standards.
 
Belz... said:
Sorry, I didn't follow the whole thing on that but... is the recipe thing genuine? If so, why write "Cherokee" there if that wasn't, at least at one time, her claim?
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From Politifact: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...behind-elizabeth-warren-and-her-native-ameri/

Before this controversy arose in 2012, there is no account that Warren spoke publicly of having Native American roots, although she called herself Cherokee in a local Oklahoma cookbook in 1984.
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Pterodactyl said:
Define "racial identity".

Are you asking me if I can correctly identify Elizabeth Warren as a white lady?

It appears I have.

Could there be exceptions? Absolutely. But those exceptions fall into the category I just described. Nice dodge tho.
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Your dodge. You said you could tell if they are white or black (so you define what that means). Now you are running away from it, and also trying to hide behind Warren's DNA test.

Yes or no: can you tell if someone is white or black just by looking at them?

Hint: your identity goes deeper than your superficial appearance.
 
Drewbot said:
She identified herself as Cherokee in the recipe book, when she submitted another chef's recipes as her own.
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You think that Warren signs her recipes and then writes "Cherokee" next to her name, as opposed to... oh, I don't know… the editors of the cookbook including that information?

And you also think that in a cookbook described as a “collection of recipes from families of the Five Civilized Tribes” that the word “Cherokee” absent any other context is an indicator of tribal affiliation as opposed to heritage? Despite the fact that it clearly states the submissions are from families of the tribes and not members of the tribes?
 
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Belz... said:
1) Warren says her family told her she has native ancestry.
2) DNA test indicates she has native ancestry.


Wow, that is indeed contorted.
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She told more of a story than that.

Warren said in a 2012 campaign ad. "What kid would? But I knew my father’s family didn’t like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware. So my parents had to elope."
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That implies sufficient level of ancestry to generate animosity. By naming the tribe that also puts some other limitations on that.
 
Is anybody starting to understand why "identity politics" and "My Identity is a distinct and separate thing from my demographics/traits" is a bad thing that makes certain topics impossible to discuss?

I hate to brush up this close to Whataboutism but Elephant in the room if Trump had made even a passing, off the cuff remark to any native american heritage, despite me putting folding money on the table that he probably has a similar insignificant amount of Native American DNA in his heritage, the frothing and screaming over cultural appropriation and identity vs demographics would come out.
 
johnny karate said:
You think that Warren signs her recipes and then writes "Cherokee" next to her name, as opposed to... oh, I don't know… the editors of the cookbook including that information?

And you also think that in a cookbook described as a “collection of recipes from families of the Five Civilized Tribes” that the word “Cherokee” absent any other context is an indicator of tribal affiliation as opposed to heritage? Despite the fact that it clearly states the submissions are from families of the tribes and not members of the tribes?
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I'm not sure what your point is. Even if it's the editor of the book who put the word there, he did so on her claim, did he not?
 
Meh, the story never mattered. She really shouldn't have released here results. Its none of our business and the folks that pretend to care aren't going to stop pretending. It was practically guaranteed to provide enough ambiguity to let both sides think they've been vindicated, which it did as her story really did make seem as though the ancestry was more recent. But again, it never mattered in the first place. At worse its a family myth that probably isn't true. Most of us have those.
 
The goal of this fight is to relegate the discussion about Warren to one issue from years ago. When she checked a box on a form that asked about her ancestry and indicated that she wasn't pure white girl.

The right wing in America doesn't want to discuss Warren's experience, qualifications or policies. They want all discussion of her to be nothing but name calling.

Meanwhile they are doing their best to gut the CFPB that Warren helped create Muzzling an agency that goes after financial institutions that cheat consumers. One that actually works for the little guy instead of just the fat cats.
 
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