Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

[Slings and Arrows]

That didn't happen, did it?

So know you are reduced to "Not DNA ENUFF!!!" to save face.

"23andMe, a prominent DNA testing company, reported in 2014 that European-Americans had genomes that were on average 98.6 percent European, .19 percent African, and .18 Native American, according to the New York Times.

"Warren’s DNA test, even if accurate, would put her genome at somewhere between 0.1 percent and 1.56 percent Native American, meaning she could be no more Native American than the average European-American, or even less so."

-- Breitbart (Oct 15, 2018)

 

[The Big Dog]

Boston Globe: "the Stanford University researcher who studied her DNA sample did not actually use samples of Native American DNA to determine whether Warren’s dubious claims of Cherokee ancestry were true"

 

[crescent]

I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.

Because it is harder to prove a negative.

She has genetic markers that are generally only found in people with Native American ancestry. This does not equal absolute certainty of Native American ancestry, but coupled with family lore of such ancestry, it makes the liklihood very very high. Not 100% certain, but very likely.

Then again, dilution happens, and the knowledge of genetic markers is not absolute. A person could have native ancestry, but not have it show up in tests. That would be very unlikely, but also possible.

Also, there could be some artifacts in the image showing that the scanned image of the birth certificate has been altered. We'll never really know unless the state of Hawaii releases the original super-long form to that crazy guy in the funny smelling home who frightens the pizza delivery people. Or was that a different refuse to believe inconvenient ancestry issue?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I like Wayne. I have no idea where he got those figures from because no source was linked, hence the labeling of not sure if this is reliable. All I can do on the topic is link quotes and sources, because I have no idea.

That's not how it works River. Just because you added "not sure" doesn't excuse your trying to prove a point with fake data.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Because it is harder to prove a negative.

She has genetic markers that are generally only found in people with Native American ancestry. This does not equal absolute certainty of Native American ancestry, but coupled with family lore of such ancestry, it makes the liklihood very very high. Not 100% certain, but very likely.

Yes it does depending on the genetic marker that was found.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

If it's not our business then it's not our concern. It can't be both ways.

This whole brouhaha is silly to the point of absurdity across the board but the revisionist history that Warren never made the claim in a context where it was supposed to matter and the Republicans are being big meanies for asking her to basically... back up what she said is growing tiresome.

Warren's claims of Native American Heritage are not some in passing statement. She made them as claims specifically in order to accomplish something, what I don't have the energy to care. She put them on college applications and she said them publicly while campaigning.

Yes of course the Republicans are going to run it into the ground, what do you expect them to do not be stupid about it?

Again... why did she bring it up? And yes she "brought it up." The Republicans didn't send thugs in to break into her office and get her diary and find a passage she wrote when she 12 about the dream she had after she read the Last Mohican for the first time and are making a big deal about it.

She made direct, explicit claims about specific Native American heritage in situations where she stood to gain from making the claim. She was asked to backup that claim. She did not for a long time. Yes the whole bloody goddamn thing was stupid and pointless, so what? Yes the whole thing was just political point scoring. That's all politics these days nobody gets to pearl clutch about this.

If it was a big enough deal for her to bring it up, it's a big enough deal for the Republicans to... be Republicans at it.

I also put Native ancestry on my college applications, based on family lore. I haven't since, because I don't have any documents or even the name that might have showed up on the Dawes roll. Warren hasn't either. Republican Scott Brown brought the whole thing up while they were competing for a seat, accusing her of lying to gain advantage (with no evidence that it mattered) and demanding proof. I see he has scored his point with you.

 

[River]

That's not how it works River. Just because you added "not sure" doesn't excuse your trying to prove a point with fake data.

I labeled it accordingly. I did not make up the stats, nor figure them in some way. If Wayne is wrong, cool. (there was no source linked on his page)

However, your insinuations are very telling. This type of silly diatribe is why democrats/leftists are losing.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I like Wayne. I have no idea where he got those figures from because no source was linked, hence the labeling of not sure if this is reliable. All I can do on the topic is link quotes and sources, because I have no idea.

You and probably a million others are misreading that data by not going to the original article and seeing who they tested:

To improve the understanding of the relationship between genetic ancestry and self-reported ethnic and racial identity, and to characterize heterogeneity in the fine-scale genetic ancestry of groups from different parts of the US, we inferred the genetic ancestry of 5,269 self-reported African Americans, 8,663 Latinos, and 148,789 European Americans who are 23andMe customers living across the US, by using high-density SNPs genotype data from 650K to 1M arrays. 23andMe customers take an active role in participating in research by submitting saliva samples, consenting for data to be used for research, and completing surveys. We generated cohorts of self-reported European American, African American, and Latino individuals from self-reported ethnicity and identity.

IOW all those people were from the US. And they looked at their genetics by self-reported ethnicity.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I labeled it accordingly. I did not make up the stats, nor figure them in some way. If Wayne is wrong, cool. (there was no source linked on his page)

However, your insinuations are very telling. This type of silly diatribe is why democrats/leftists are losing.

We are losing because the Republicans cheat. [/end sidetrack with my apologies]

 

[JoeMorgue]

I also put Native ancestry on my college applications, based on family lore. I haven't since, because I don't have any documents or even the name that might have showed up on the Dawes roll. Warren hasn't either. Republican Scott Brown brought the whole thing up while they were competing for a seat, accusing her of lying to gain advantage (with no evidence that it mattered) and demanding proof. I see he has scored his point with you.

I don't give a tin whistle if Elizabeth Warren's DNA came back 25% velociraptor.

I just don't get the whole "How dare my political opponents expect me to back up a claim I made publicly" thing.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I suppose Trump will pay up that $1 million now.

Does Cain know you're making a play for his crown?

 

[kookbreaker]

Warren's claims of Native American Heritage are not some in passing statement. She made them as claims specifically in order to accomplish something, what I don't have the energy to care. She put them on college applications and she said them publicly while campaigning.

This is incorrect, she did not put it on any application to anything. SHe listed herself as such on a faculty listing well after she was employed.

She did not use her ancestry during campaigning. Scott Brown, her opponent brought it up as a 'character issue' and made attack ads about that, in reply she told the story her family told her.

 

[River]

You and probably a million others are misreading that data by not going to the original article and seeing who they tested:IOW all those people were from the US. And they looked at their genetics by self-reported ethnicity.

Warren is from the USA. Apparently she has claimed minority status at some points in her life.

Can you define what it takes to be a minority? (feelings? certain amount of dna? what is the standard?) Would someone benefit in any way from that status at a university or job hiring process?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Furthermore, if a 'generation' is 25-30 years, that would put the time frame of her native ancestory somewhere around the early 1800s. While that may be outside 'living' memory, it is certainly not ancient history. I know people who have built family trees that go back that far.

In the Uk and much of Europe we consider the 1800's fairly recent. Hell, here in Blighty there are still people who claim their position based on ancestors from well before that.

 

[kookbreaker]

Can you define what it takes to be a minority? (feelings? certain amount of dna? what is the standard?) Would someone benefit in any way from that status at a university or job hiring process?

I have a better idea. Please explain why she has no Native American ancestry. In your own words.

You've been trying to get people on this thread to 'define minority' on this thread as a distraction over and over. Give it a rest.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This is incorrect, she did not put it on any application to anything. SHe listed herself as such on a faculty listing well after she was employed.

You see that as a bigger distinction then I do.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yeah. They crossed the border that didn't exist yet to take jobs from real Native Americans and have anchor babies.

"Anchor Papooses" the devil's in the details.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

You see that as a bigger distinction then I do.

Did it accomplish anything to make the claim after having gotten the position? Can't be something she claimed in order to help her get it, if she got it first and then made the claim. Order of operations is the distinction.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Warren is from the USA. Apparently she has claimed minority status at some points in her life.

Can you define what it takes to be a minority? (feelings? certain amount of dna? what is the standard?) Would someone benefit in any way from that status at a university or job hiring process?

You are conflating a single institution's definition with the general definition. It's going to differ with whomever is asking.

Back to the NYT's link, it was a safe bet for Warren to take the genetic test. Chances were very high there would be some Native American ancestry. Most of us have a little. And a whole lot more of us have a fair amount of African ancestry.

Looks like Warren has more than the average American.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I've been seeing responses saying things like, "Oh, but she's not actually part of the tribe" and stuff like that.

And the answer is, of course not. And she never claimed to be.

But yeah, knock down that straw man.

She's going after Trump to give the million dollars. His response is .... weird. It's one thing to say, "I wasn't serious" when your bluff gets called. Or "that's not good enough." But the whole, "I didn't say that" is just mental.

I mean, who are the supporters stupid enough to buy that?

PG, take a deep breath, count to ten, re-read the hilighted, then reconsider if you really need to ask that question.