Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

[I Am The Scum]

He already denied it, so, to borrow a line from Animal house:

"You ****** up. You trusted us."

D. Bluto Blutarsky Trump

I want to make sure I fully understand you on this:

Big Dog does not care if Trump lies about donating money to charity.

Would that be an accurate portrayal of your values?

 

[d4m10n]

didn't she claim that she had a descendant from the Delaware or Cherokee tribes?

Just as a bit of a side note, one of those tribes was something like a wholly-owned subsidiary of the other one for many years, see this page for some of the relevant history. Delaware are independent of the Cherokee for now, the result of years of negotiations between the two tribes. I’ve been following this legal wrangling for years, since my wife and kids are members of the Delaware Tribe, which does not have a minimum blood quantum requirement.

No I think it is silly to claim that one has Native American history because maybe someone 6 to 10 generations ago might have been native American.

Guessing you aren't from Oklahoma.

The only way to become a member of some tribes round these parts is to show the tribal council you can trace your ancestry back many generations ago.

For example:

Tribal membership is limited exclusively to descendants of Delaware people on the 1906 tribal rolls from Indian Territory.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Cherokee from south of the border?

"As a kid, I never asked my mom for documentation when she talked about our Native American heritage. What kid would? But I knew my father's family didn't like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware, so my parents had to elope."
-- Elizabeth Warren

Which isnt a lie regardless of her ancestry.

 

[crescent]

"As a kid, I never asked my mom about documentation when she talked about our Native American heritage," Warren said in a 2012 campaign ad. "What kid would? But I knew my father’s family didn’t like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware. So my parents had to elope."

Heredity tests come back and show she might have an insignificant amount of native Peruvian.

Our Conclusion: Eight Fauxcahontas

She further claimed specific tribal ancestry.

Here's the actual report: https://mk0elizabethwarh5ore.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Bustamante_Report_2018.pdf

Second to last page, caption for Figure 2:

In this ancestry specific analysis [3]. the Native American haplotype of the test sample is displayed against a panel of Native American references from across North American. The test sample's Native American ancestry falls between the First Nations (Canada) and Indigenous Mexican peoples, as would be expected for Native American ancestry deriving from the lower 48 states of the United States.

(bolding added)(the "test sample" is Warren's DNA)

The report supports her family's lore. Her results do not show Peruvian ancestry, that's another lie.

The Cherokee were having regular contact with Euro-Americans by the early 18th century, and with sporadic contact for a century before that. The timing still works.

 

[The Big Dog]

I want to make sure I fully understand you on this:

Big Dog does not care if Trump lies about donating money to charity.

Would that be an accurate portrayal of your values?

Not accurate

"I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian."

Her test showed that she might be the whitest whitey in whitey town.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I... don't... care. I don't understand why Elizabeth Warren thought her homeopathic level of Native Americaness was something any of us were the least bit interested in and I don't care that the Republicans think it's a hill to die defending.

There is no angle to approach this discussion from that isn't stupid.

For a demagogue like Trump, whether or not Warren has any native blood, there always was and still is the angle of white resentment of "special rights" for minorities. You can see from the pathetic apologia of the trumpers here that they still accept the lie that Warren took advantage of her heritage claim.

 

[The Big Dog]

For a demagogue like Trump, whether or not Warren has any native blood, there always was and still is the angle of white resentment of "special rights" for minorities. You can see from the pathetic apologia of the trumpers here that they still accept the lie that Warren took advantage of her heritage claim.

So you are saying that Harvard took advantage of her heritage claim? Hmmm.

Plus, isn't putting it in a campaign ad trying to take advantage of it?

Wait, there is a 1/1064 chance this is turning out well for Betsy.

 

[Segnosaur]

She listed herself as a minority law professor.

It appears that none of the people who were involved in hiring her actually used that as a factor in hiring her. So again, no real advantage to her.

https://www.apnews.com/4d83eff785f146c6a20754a61f5fa503

 

[johnny karate]

Not accurate

"I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian."

Her test showed that she might be the whitest whitey in whitey town.

Oops...

Bustamante also compared Warren’s DNA to white populations in Utah and Great Britain to determine if the amounts of Native American markers in Warren’s sample were significant or just background noise.

Warren has 12 times more Native American blood than a white person from Great Britain and 10 times more than a white person from Utah, the report found.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...AbmSVO/story.html?s_campaign=bdc:article:stub

Another swing and a miss for The Big Dog.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Not accurate

"I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian."

Her test showed that she might be the whitest whitey in whitey town.

That's not what the test showed.

If you want to lie to yourself, I won't stop you. Please don't lie to me.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It appears that none of the people who were involved in hiring her actually used that as a factor in hiring her. So again, no real advantage to her.

https://www.apnews.com/4d83eff785f146c6a20754a61f5fa503

Not relevant to me. It is about her character to me and she doesn't measure up.

 

[phiwum]

There are two possibilities here:

1. You acknowledge Trumps accusation, and he still gets to counter your response. (THIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS FORGED)

2. You do not acknowledge Trumps accusation, and say that his accusation is not worthy of a response. As was shown in the movie The Contender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Contender_(2000_film)

Truth just doesn't matter to you, does it?

Illustrative example: Drewbot is a pedophile.

Either respond (in which case I may counter with an equally baseless claim) or do not acknowledge (in which case I will repeat this scurrilous and baseless accusation far and wide). Am I alpha now?

Note for the clueless: I have no reason to believe that Drewbot is a pedophile. (Trump addendum: but a lot of people are talking about it.)

 

[The Big Dog]

That's not what the test showed.

If you want to lie to yourself, I won't stop you. Please don't lie to me.

Well, that is what Trump said, so...

 

[BobTheCoward]

Here's the actual report: https://mk0elizabethwarh5ore.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Bustamante_Report_2018.pdf

Second to last page, caption for Figure 2:

(bolding added)(the "test sample" is Warren's DNA)

The report supports her family's lore. Her results do not show Peruvian ancestry, that's another lie.

The Cherokee were having regular contact with Euro-Americans by the early 18th century, and with sporadic contact for a century before that. The timing still works.

Her story seems clearly describing relations that occurred in Oklahoma. If the source of Cherokee blood is pre Oklahoma and they just so happened to end up in Oklahoma with the Cherokee, I don't think that aligns.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Well, that is what Trump said, so...

Is this the part where I say "rule of so?"

 

[The Big Dog]

Is this the part where I say "rule of so?"

Nope, although there is an example in this thread....

"So Elizabeth Warren is *possibly* 1/1024 (0.09%) Native American. Scientists say the average European-American is 0.18% Native American."

 

[crescent]

Her story seems clearly describing relations that occurred in Oklahoma. If the source of Cherokee blood is pre Oklahoma and they just so happened to end up in Oklahoma with the Cherokee, I don't think that aligns.

If the intermarriage from the family story occurred in Oklahoma, it can still work - the marriage in question might have been with someone who was themselves mixed race. Many of the Cherokee were themselves of mixed race generations before the expulsion to Oklahoma.

Remember, we are looking at the marriage of Warren's parents, nearly a century ago. The "one drop" rule was still a thing, in culture at least. So Warren's mother's family was suspected of being part native American. that could easily mean that they just knew that Warren's mother's grandmother married a Cherokee who might have had predominantly white ancestry to begin with

(I know that legally, the "one drop rule" didn't apply to Native American ancestry. But culturally, it probably still did in many circles.)

I gotta add, one of the whitest white people I've ever known (fair skin, blue eyes, white-blonde hair) had an ancestor on the Dawes role and was an active member of the Cherokee tribe. You can't miss those strong twangy Okie accents. You don't need to look even remotely Native American to actually be Native American, in the sense of having shared ancestry and culture.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Nope, although there is an example in this thread....

"So Elizabeth Warren is *possibly* 1/1024 (0.09%) Native American. Scientists say the average European-American is 0.18% Native American."

Which is one of the reasons many felt the complaints about her claims were misplaced. So many people do have mixed heritage.

Not me though.

 

[pgwenthold]

I've been seeing responses saying things like, "Oh, but she's not actually part of the tribe" and stuff like that.

And the answer is, of course not. And she never claimed to be.

But yeah, knock down that straw man.

She's going after Trump to give the million dollars. His response is .... weird. It's one thing to say, "I wasn't serious" when your bluff gets called. Or "that's not good enough." But the whole, "I didn't say that" is just mental.

I mean, who are the supporters stupid enough to buy that?

 

[BobTheCoward]

If the intermarriage from the family story occurred in Oklahoma, it can still work - the marriage in question might have been with someone who was themselves mixed race. Many of the Cherokee were themselves of mixed race generations before the expulsion to Oklahoma.

Remember, we are looking at the marriage of Warren's parents, nearly a century ago. The "one drop" rule was still a thing, in culture at least. So Warren's mother's family was suspected of being part native American. that could easily mean that they just knew that Warren's mother's grandmother married a Cherokee who might have had predominantly white ancestry to begin with

(I know that legally, the "one drop rule" didn't apply to Native American ancestry. But culturally, it probably still did in many circles.)

I gotta add, one of the whitest white people I've ever known (fair skin, blue eyes, white-blonde hair) had an ancestor on the Dawes role and was an active member of the Cherokee tribe. You can't miss those strong twangy Okie accents. You don't need to look even remotely Native American to actually be Native American, in the sense of having shared ancestry and culture.

That is all a lot of coincidences trafficking in the traditional Oklahoma narrative that is post 1840 relocation ancestry.