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The hidden variable of consciousness experiment

ServiceSoon

Graduate Poster
ServiceSoon
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,745
servicesoon said:
Synopsis: Controlling by exactly duplicating every aspect currently known to contribute to the individual conscious experience (nature/biology and nurture/environment) would provide evidence to allow reasonable inference if a variable exists which contributes to consciousness that is not currently found in the scientific literature.

Scientific Process:
1. Ask a question. Does the Biopsychosocial (BPS) Model adequately capture all variables that contribute to consciousness?

2. Background research. The current scientific literature is awash with evidence that supports the theories that Biology, Psychology, and Sociology contribute to consciousness. These areas of study are all included in the BPS Model.

My assessment for any scientific literature examining the possible existence of factors outside the BPS Model that contribute to the emergence of consciousness are very limited. All of them have been sensibly dismissed for various breaches in the scientific methodology.

3. Hypothesis. There exist a variable which contributes to consciousness that the current BPS Model does not include.

4. Test with experiment. This experiment will consist of no less than thirty test subjects. All three areas of the BPS Model will be controlled and exactly duplicated. Every test subject will have exactly the same;
DNA, nutrition, social/physical interaction and stimulation, environment, etc.

The test administered will seek differential anomalies among test subjects and could include the following tests and/or observations; behavioral, intelligence/adaptation, neuroscience, inspection of urine/fecal matter and blood, etc.

Any deviations from this protocol or observations of divergence among the test subjects will be recorded and documented so that they can be accessed for distortion of the results.

5. Analyze data and draw conclusion. Possible outcomes and conclusions:
a) The test subjects exhibit statistical and practically significant differences that are consistent and measurable on anytests. There exists a variable which contributes to consciousness that the current BPS Model does not account for.
b) The test subjects exhibit no statistical or practically significant differences that are consistent and measurable on all tests. The BPS Model completely includes all variables that contribute to consciousness.
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Outside of quoting myself :D Do you like it, love it, thoughts?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
An impossible-to-achieve experimental setup and no indication of what it's measuring.
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What specifically is impossible to achieve?

Agreed! I am not attempting to measure something. I cannot measure something if I’m unaware of its existence. At this stage I’m not interested in speculating what that something might be. This experiment was designed to determine if that something exist.
 
This part is true though the biopsychological model isn't compatible with the biology of consciousness:
3. Hypothesis. There exist a variable which contributes to consciousness that the current BPS Model does not include. [which is currently unknown]
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Until we figure out the biology of consciousness, AI in a true sense is not going to happen. Consciousness does not appear to be the result of increasing amounts of data and processing power.

Your proposed test is highly flawed. You can't determine the missing variable in consciousness between subjects that all have consciousness.
 
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ServiceSoon said:
What specifically is impossible to achieve?
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Thirty test subjects with identical DNA, for a start. Totally identical social/physical interaction requires thirty completely independent and completely identical environments, populated with thirty groups of similarly identical subjects who also have had identical social and physical environments, because otherwise there are uncontrolled variables. And, of course, each member of these thirty groups must therefore come from an identical social group, and so on for an infinite regress, because - for example - one different set of stories told in childhood to one member of one environment could serve as an uncontrolled variable.

Ethically, of course, the whole thing is unthinkable.

Dave
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Assume woo. Look for woo. Anything new: Woo!!
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If the experiment indicates that there are factors that contribute to measurable/observable differences outside our current understanding, I have not speculated on what those variables could be. Additional experiments would need to be designed to further our understanding.
 
HighRiser said:
Are the genetically identical test subjects humans?
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While human subjects would provide valuable feedback to the experiment based on their introspection, it would be highly unethical to conduct my experiment on humans.
 
ServiceSoon said:
I realize that quoting myself is nonsense but what do you think of my proposed experiment?
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It makes no sense. You are looking for something you don't know what is, and your experiment is impossible. Where are you going to get thirty identical beings? How do you know whatever you are looking for will show up as a difference between identical individuals? How do you know it will manifest in whatever parameters you are measuring?

Before you design an experiment, you must have a thesis: What will confirm the thing you are looking for?

Hans
 
As others have stated the proposed experiment is impossible to perform. Identical biology goes beyond identical DNA. Even identical twins have different fingerprints and therefore differences in their physical makeup. If you are trying to demonstrate some non-physical influence on consciousness your experiment will not be capable of conclusively demonstrating it.
 
ServiceSoon said:
What specifically is impossible to achieve?

Agreed! I am not attempting to measure something. I cannot measure something if I’m unaware of its existence. At this stage I’m not interested in speculating what that something might be. This experiment was designed to determine if that something exist.
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But why would differences between individuals necessarily mean there is some unknown variable?

It's possible that the same person raised with all the same stimuli down to the atom might turn out differently each time the experiment is run. It's possible he might turn out the same.

If you don't know what a null result is, I'm not sure how you could zero in on a deviation from the null.
 
Ya gotta have soul?

But what if all 30 souls are identical?
 
I propose a similar test on a game of pool. Let's build a robot to play a game of pool. If it can't play the same identical game every time for 30 consecutive games I propose that there is something beyond the Standard Model that impacts upon the dynamics of the game...
 
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