Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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True, but much of the information



will be common. Customs classification of the goods will be extra, but can be attached to the goods description in a computerised stock system.

Since I have written code for such customs documents, I know this is utterly misguided.

In reality, the overhead dealing with customs documentation is a headache, a hassle, and total a waste of resources to generate paper/virtual documentation that nobody ever reads anyway.

Brexit is going to be a nightmare in that regard and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. The only reason it doesn't much bother me is because my company does not export to the UK, so I don't care.

You UKians have made your bed, now you get to lie in it. In both senses of the word.
 
If you're a regular exporter, it's as simple to produce as a delivery note. Once you're large enough to have a computerised stock system then it's trivial.

It seems simply illogical to assume that life outside a customs bloc that was made precisely to ease the admin of import-export will be just as easy for exporters as inside it.

You basically seem to be arguing that the EU customs union serves no useful purpose.
 
I understand it well enough to confidently predict that the forecast is rubbish.


There will not be an extra third of a million new jobs created filling in paperwork. If there were, it would be impossible for the receiving agency to process it all. They would have to just burn it or dump it without looking at more than a tiny sample. The people producing the paperwork would know that, so could shortcut the hand drawn pictures part and just post blank pieces of paper instead - this would, of course, mean that they could do the job with many fewer people.


Sensible heads would prevail and the whole system would be scrapped as unwieldy and useless. Any records that did need to be supplied would, in the vast majority of cases, be generated by computers and supplied to other computers without any paper being involved.


The Project Fear prediction, will be revealed, like all the others, to be a ludicrously inflated over estimate of the true costs - which may end up being 1% or so of the threatened "up to" £20 billion.


Of course, when the true costs turn out to be say, £10 million, then the overpaid idiot that produced the forecast will be able to claim that his forecast was correct as £10 million is indeed encompassed by a forecast of "up to £20 billion". As I hinted in an earlier post he might just as well have said "up to twenty thousand trillion pounds per day" - that would be an equally accurate estimate.

This is a hugely telling piece of 'thinking' - the forecasts are rubbish because the rules and systems would make Brexit unworkable and therefore will just have to change because of Brexit. Of course no work will be done in the meantime to change the system as noone can agree anything so magic system fairies will just make everything alright come April.
 
Of course no work will be done in the meantime to change the system. because EU rules don't allow it, and the EU structured the timetable for the "negotiations" so that it can't even be formally discussed until after the withdrawal agreement (bribe) has been finalized .
ftfy
 
It seems simply illogical to assume that life outside a customs bloc that was made precisely to ease the admin of import-export will be just as easy for exporters as inside it.

You basically seem to be arguing that the EU customs union serves no useful purpose.


That's not what I am arguing, and I'm not sure how you got there. The advantages of the customs union is the aligned rules and duties, which is independent of the paperwork.

My point is around how HMRC's comments around the different choices have not been completely objective, but around supporting Government policy.
 
This is a hugely telling piece of 'thinking' - the forecasts are rubbish because the rules and systems would make Brexit unworkable and therefore will just have to change because of Brexit. Of course no work will be done in the meantime to change the system as noone can agree anything so magic system fairies will just make everything alright come April.

Ahhh... but you have failed to fully fathom the depth of the madness.

There is no forecast.

You start out with a story about the head of HMRC receiving death threats because he testified in last May that 'MaxFac' would add an extra burden of 20bn to EU-UK trade.

Brexiteers, of course, ignore the story and go straight to the 20bn estimate.

Someone fantasizes that the estimate is derived from having half a million people filling out paper forms. Brexiteers realize, at great length, how stupid that would be. Yet somehow they fail to question their own fantasy. Even when someone provides an actual link to the testimony, they persist in the fantasy.

I am not sure how this estimate morphed into a forecast.
 
Someone fantasizes that the estimate is derived from having half a million people filling out paper forms.

Even when they get it they fail to understand how crap the government is at comissoning computer systems. I'm struggling to think of a nationwide system that wasn't very late, seriously overbudget and underperformed to the point of uselessness.

It may be that the successes aren't reported, but even so, the amount of high profile failures is asatounding.
 
That's not what I am arguing, and I'm not sure how you got there. The advantages of the customs union is the aligned rules and duties, which is independent of the paperwork..
The advantages are the removal of borders that require declarations and payments. Aligned rules and duties duties still creates an admin burden if there is no customs union. We have a US EU trade war at the moment. The US increased the tariff on steel and we responded. The duty rates matching does not mean that US exporters no longer need to declare imports into the Union or no longer need to pay tariffs or no longer needs to get the steel checked. There are still border checks.
The advantage of the Union is there are only only border checks and processes as goods come into and leave the union. If you are in the union your goods can go anywhere else in the Union under free circulation rules.
Currently UK goods are free to go anywhere in the EU without needing to go through customs declarations and checks. If we leave the customs union we need to make declarations before goods can enter the Union. That will be the case from day 1 of leaving even though at that stage we will have identical rules and identical WTO tarriffs.
 
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Make your mind up. Do you want contingency measures for a no-deal Brexit to be taken or not?

Remain supporters will sneer and criticize either way.
 
Make your mind up. Do you want contingency measures for a no-deal Brexit to be taken or not?

Remain supporters will sneer and criticize either way.

Some ideas deserve derision.

But hey, if "let's turn this functional traffic artery into a parking lot" is the hill you want to fight for...
 
Make your mind up. Do you want contingency measures for a no-deal Brexit to be taken or not?

Remain supporters will sneer and criticize either way.

I thought the UK was supposed to get a super deal that allowed them all the benefits of being in the single market without any of the responsibilities?
 
I thought the UK was supposed to get a super deal that allowed them all the benefits of being in the single market without any of the responsibilities?

I must admit - I haven't seen many Brexiteers claiming how the UK holds the strongest negotiating position. Maybe we'll be saved by French Champagne producers, but I'm not counting on it.
 
The advantage of the Union is there are only only border checks and processes as goods come into and leave the union. If you are in the union your goods can go anywhere else in the Union under free circulation rules. Currently UK goods are free to go anywhere in the EU without needing to go through customs declarations and checks. If we leave the customs union we need to make declarations before goods can enter the Union. That will be the case from day 1 of leaving even though at that stage we will have identical rules and identical WTO tarriffs.

I'm surprised (or maybe not) how the likes of Ceptimus fail to understand even this basic issue.

Even simply as an eBay seller I know that if I sell to a buyer in the EU, all I have to do is put the postage and address on the package and send it off. If I sell to a non-EU buyer, I have to fill out a customs declaration, which includes the weight of the item itself (i.e. less packaging).

As an eBay buyer, I know that if I'm ordering from an EU seller, the package will come straight to me at no further charge. If, however, the seller is not in the EU, I can expect the package to be delayed for customs checking, and that if the declared value is more than £15, it will cost me another 20% in VAT and a £8 "handing charge" from Royal Mail.
 
To be fair, the VAT would still be charged for an EU purchase, it would just be inclusive in the price. But the customs delay and handling charges are an aggravation.
 
I buy several small electronic items from eBay most weeks. Most of them come from China and arrive without problems. Free postage too. They're much cheaper than the same items sold by EU or even UK suppliers. Last time I checked, China wasn't in the EU.
 
The rip off handling charge imposed by Parcel Farce on more expensive items is outrageous. Any decent government would prevent them charging more than the real costs they incur. Sadly we don't have a decent government.
 
I buy several small electronic items from eBay most weeks. Most of them come from China and arrive without problems. Free postage too. They're much cheaper than the same items sold by EU or even UK suppliers. Last time I checked, China wasn't in the EU.

It depends how they are declared. Some get round a charge by claiming they are gifts or 'commercial samples'. It doesn't always work.

If the value is not much above the £15 pound official limit they don't bother persuing the import duty as it is not cost effective to do it.

Try importing something worth £100 or more and see what happens.
 
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