The Behavior of UK Police officers.

[baron]

Did you perhaps link the wrong image as none of the highlighted is in the image you did link to?

So phrases like "You may not have faith..." and "End of sermon" don't reference religiosity? And what's this about 'religious dress'? I guess this must be protecting all the Christians in Scotland who wear... religious dress? Greek Orthodox, maybe.

Several Christian groups in Scotland have spoken out against an anti-hate speech Scottish government campaign addressed to "bigots" in a sermon-style message...

"...we have never before felt it necessary to make a formal complaint of this kind in the U.K. This is no less than state-sponsored prejudice which we are more used to seeing in countries where Christians are marginalized and persecuted."

You'd better contact these Christian groups and tell them they simply can't read and that there's nothing to fuss about.

 

[Worm]

It's obviously not aimed at me because I'm not religious. So that's that inference down the pan.

I've no idea why you, or anyone else, would think it was aimed at you. Did anyone suggest that?

 

[baron]

I've no idea why you, or anyone else, would think it was aimed at you. Did anyone suggest that?

Don't worry, I don't mind being called, or inferred to be, a bigot. What I do object to is being arrested for it.

Back to the poster and its meanings: The UK definition of hate crime is:

“Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on a person’s disability or perceived disability; race or perceived race; or religion or perceived religion; or sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation or a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender.”

and

When an incident is first reported, it will be recorded as a hate crime if the victim or witness or any other relevant person (including, for example, an investigating officer, or CPS lawyer) considers that there was an element of hostility involved. This perception-based test focuses for the most part on the subjective view of the victim.

In other words, if this poster has been reported as a hate crime then it is, in law, a hate crime. It may not go to court and conviction may not follow, but it is still recorded as a hate crime. And that's that.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Oh, the poor victim status.

Sorry, did you mean the poor victim who thinks "it's obvious" that posters that don't mention Christians in any way whatsoever are aimed at oppressing them?

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

In other words, if this poster has been reported as a hate crime then it is, in law, a hate crime.

Wrong. You may want to re-read the first three words of the definition you posted. Or, if that's a logical impossibility, read them.

Dave

 

[GlennB]

RIP honest debate.

It's obvious. I'm not wasting my time explaining something this blatant so you guys carry on playing your silly little games. But maybe you can explain why religious bigots must be religious themselves. And whilst you're at it, why bigotry should be a crime.

Oh, the poor victim status. Who's "not allowing you"? Can I help?

Are you feeling alright?

 

[baron]

Are you feeling alright?

Great, thanks. Have you anything to add to the topic or did you just pop in for a quick insult?

 

[baron]

Wrong. You may want to re-read the first three words of the definition you posted. Or, if that's a logical impossibility, read them.

Dave

Tell you what, instead of reading just three words, why not read all of my post or even - and stop me if I'm being ridiculous - the document I linked to. Then you'll see that those three words describe what makes an offence a hate crime. The second portion of my post shows how hate crimes are recorded, and what constitutes a hate crime in terms of reporting.

 

[Mojo]

It's aimed at bigots. In really big type. It's not subtle. Or more specifically religious bigots. Christianity isn't mentioned, nor is any other religion.

I can conceivably read it as a warning to those who exhibit religious bigotry, of any kind. Whether they actually deliver on that message is a different question, but the message is clear.

I suspect that anyone who feels this is aimed at them should probably examine their own conscience.

Yes, but you can see why some ‘Christians’ might think it’s aimed at them.

Oh, the poor victim status.

Oh yes, and that as well.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Tell you what, instead of reading just three words, why not read [...] the document I linked to.

Well, I suppose one of us should. The document makes it perfectly clear (to anyone not deliberately trying to twist its meaning) that in order to be a hate crime, an action has to be a crime.

But of course, different things seem to be obvious to different people.

Dave

 

[baron]

I must say, it's interesting how much support this missive has on this site, the site that regularly rails against religion (some religions, anyway) and until relatively recently celebrated Blasphemy Day with pages of invective that would without question cause them to be arrested by Police Scotland should it come to their attention, and should they fall under its jurisdiction. So, you know, less of the 'preaching'.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I must say, it's interesting how much support this missive has on this site, the site that regularly rails against religion (some religions, anyway) and until relatively recently celebrated Blasphemy Day with pages of invective that without question that would without question cause them to be arrested by Police Scotland should it come to their attention, and should they fall under its jurisdiction. So, you know, less of the 'preaching'.

It's OK, we get it. The Scottish police make an appeal for religious and cultural tolerance, and you take it as a personal attack and a hate crime. We all understand.

Dave

 

[baron]

Well, I suppose one of us should. The document makes it perfectly clear (to anyone not deliberately trying to twist its meaning) that in order to be a hate crime, an action has to be a crime.

But of course, different things seem to be obvious to different people.

Dave

It does not. It makes it clear that any report of activity which the victim or any other person believes is a hate crime is recorded as a hate crime. Criminality only needs to be proved for a conviction in court. That's why all hate crimes are defined as crimes that have 'hate' as an aggravating factor.

 

[baron]

It's OK, we get it. The Scottish police make an appeal for religious and cultural tolerance, and you take it as a personal attack and a hate crime. We all understand.

Dave

That, an appeal for tolerance? LOL! All it needs is a picture of Big Brother and it wouldn't read out of place in '1984'. That you support such fascism; noted. And I'll keep an eye out for your posts to ensure that you don't demean Christianity or any other religion in any way. If you do then of course I'll report you to the police, knowing full well that you'd support my action.

 

[Darat]

It does not. It makes it clear that any report of activity which the victim or any other person believes is a hate crime is recorded as a hate crime. Criminality only needs to be proved for a conviction in court. That's why all hate crimes are defined as crimes that have 'hate' as an aggravating factor.

And if I ring up the police and tell them I have had my phone stolen that will get recorded as a theft even if I hadn't actually had my phone stolen.

 

[Darat]

I must say, it's interesting how much support this missive has on this site, ...snip...

So far no one has "supported the missive" - all that has happened is people don't understand your view that it is only aimed at Christians.

the site that regularly rails against religion (some religions, anyway) and until relatively recently celebrated Blasphemy Day with pages of invective that would without question cause them to be arrested by Police Scotland should it come to their attention, and should they fall under its jurisdiction. So, you know, less of the 'preaching'.

As for that above - I literally don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Darat]

That, an appeal for tolerance? LOL! All it needs is a picture of Big Brother and it wouldn't read out of place in '1984'. That you support such fascism; noted. And I'll keep an eye out for your posts to ensure that you don't demean Christianity or any other religion in any way. If you do then of course I'll report you to the police, knowing full well that you'd support my action.

That, like demeaning Islam or demeaning Judaism or demeaning Sikhism isn't a crime in any part of the UK.

 

[Dave Rogers]

That, an appeal for tolerance? LOL! All it needs is a picture of Big Brother and it wouldn't read out of place in '1984'. That you support such fascism; noted. And I'll keep an eye out for your posts to ensure that you don't demean Christianity or any other religion in any way. If you do then of course I'll report you to the police, knowing full well that you'd support my action.

It must be strange living in a fantasy world like that. But please do report to the police that people you don't know on an Internet forum are saying things about Christianity that you personally find demeaning. I'm sure that they'll take you very seriously the first time.

Dave

 

[Belz...]

Possibly one of the most bizarre claims ever seen on this site, or any site.

I think he was using hyperbole, people.

Your lily white country likes to brag how "diverse" it is. I'm not the least bit surprised.

eta:

You really don't know anything about those countries, do you?

This footage clearly depicts a group of officers running away from confrontation

Let's just say I won't take your word for it.

 

[baron]

And if I ring up the police and tell them I have had my phone stolen that will get recorded as a theft even if I hadn't actually had my phone stolen.

A stolen phone doesn't require any subjective judgement. It may be a fraudulent report, or incorrect, but that's a different matter.

So far no one has "supported the missive" - all that has happened is people don't understand your view that it is only aimed at Christians.

Well it reads to me, and many others, like it does, and clearly so. But let's say you're right. Let's say it's aimed at everybody. Your comment, and others, to the effect of 'Why would anybody think this is being aimed at them unless they're a bigot'? is quite something to say on a site that is renowned for its mockery of religion and Christianity in particular. If I went through your post history (I'm not going to) would I find any posts intolerant of any religion, mocking religion or the religious?

And in case this is unclear, it's hypocrisy unless you accept that most people on this site (and I won't include you personally because I don't know, only suspect) are the very bigots that are referred to in the text. I know I certainly am, and I know a great many other posters who are too.