Lessons to be learned from the Kavanaugh Hearing

[Cabbage]

It was clear what I was talking about because of who and what I was responding to. Pull your cabbage out of your patch and actually read what Craig4 wrote.

I have. Here it is for reference:

Women are going to get their revenge on Kavanagh. He lives in the bluest place in the country. When he tries to put all this behind him, he'll find he can't. He's going to get called a rapist and a pig any time he goes out in public. Many of those women who loath him with every fiber of their being who were protesting live here.

...and the only difference comparing this and, say, the actions of a James Patrick or Eric Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh, is the severity of the actions taken in revenge (or intended revenge, in Patrick's case). It's quite disingenuous to complain that Democrats are uniquely guilty when such examples of conservative activists are quite well known and much much worse.

And, sure, the actions of James Hodgkinson are similarly severe and deplorable...but then again, I was never ignorant enough to claim it was a uniquely Republican problem, now was I?

 

[Cabbage]

But if you want to be pedantic and continue to claim I'm comparing apples with oranges, fine. I'll ask you a specific question:

How is the hassling of Ted Cruz, Kavanaugh, or Huckabee Sanders, of a meaningfully different character than, say, the alt-right hassling of the city of Charlottesville last year?

If you think there's a substantial difference, one in which the Democrats are the more egregious trespassers on public tranquility (LOL!)...well, I'm really not sure quite how to respond to such blatant, blind, partisan ignorance. In that case, I honestly think the indoctrination you've obviously undergone is quite beyond repair.

 

[Delvo]

A real lesson for Democrats to seriously consider (not that many of them will): when we talk about lefty economic stuff like a livable minimum wage and Medicare For All and income stagnation, the public is with us, but the public has generally not yet accepted the left's identity-politics/SJW social extremism, such as the automatic presumption of guilt for men targeted with sexual accusations from women with no evidence.

Oh dear God come down off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and use the bridge to get over it.

I can understand being a sore loser, but how the hell are the Republicans being such sore winners?

Nearly everything about the Republicans' behavior, not just on this subject but also on all others, can best be explained by thinking of them as about 3 or 4 years old, and can best be predicted by expecting what you would expect from a 3-or-4-year-old.

 

[thaiboxerken]

.....the automatic presumption of guilt for men targeted with sexual accusations from women with no evidence.

Nope.

Nice try, but nope.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I see people harassing Republicans at restaurants, in elevators, at home.

They really need to reconsider that tactic.
At some point, right-wing nuts are going to copy the tactics of the left-wing nuts. Do we really want a constant back-and-forth of people barging into restaurants to screw with politicians they don't like?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I see people harassing Republicans at restaurants, in elevators, at home.

They really need to reconsider that tactic.
At some point, right-wing nuts are going to copy the tactics of the left-wing nuts. Do we really want a constant back-and-forth of people barging into restaurants to screw with politicians they don't like?

What you're seeing is people copying the tactics of the right-wing nuts who have been doing this kind of thing for decades. At least those on the left aren't killing or running people over with cars.

 

[phiwum]

What you're seeing is people copying the tactics of the right-wing nuts who have been doing this kind of thing for decades. At least those on the left aren't killing or running people over with cars.

Can you point to Republicans harassing Democratic legislators or administration officials in public? I don't recall anything like that.

This is not to say that some Republicans haven't behaved badly in other ways.

 

[Darat]

Can you point to Republicans harassing Democratic legislators or administration officials in public? I don't recall anything like that.

This is not to say that some Republicans haven't behaved badly in other ways.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...taurant/?utm_term=.36fb4ea2ebab&noredirect=on

 

[thaiboxerken]

The Republicans had a strategy of harassing Democrats in public, from town hall meetings to speeches. Republican elected officials and candidates for office put targets on their opponents, like Gabby Gifford, as well.

 

[River]

I see people harassing Republicans at restaurants, in elevators, at home.

They really need to reconsider that tactic.
At some point, right-wing nuts are going to copy the tactics of the left-wing nuts. Do we really want a constant back-and-forth of people barging into restaurants to screw with politicians they don't like?

The left is too busy hating Trump and pointing fingers to notice or care. But they will notice once its too late.

 

[LSSBB]

It is legal to defend yourself from what? The protesters were crossing at a corner, which under Portland law gives them the right of way.

There was no family in the car. There was no threat. He used his vehicle as a battering ram (at low speed but a battering ram nevertheless).

He was defending his inalienable right to get to the next corner when he wanted to. He was not driving an ambulance rushing to an accident. He was not in fear for his life as no one is seen approaching the car. (Well, there's no speaking to "state of mind" and perhaps he's a paranoid whackjob, but there was no "reasonable" fear.)

This is not Stand Your Ground. The guy was a reprehensible **** who decided he wasn't going to wait forty-five more seconds for the few dozen protesters to pass and he was gonna turn, by golly, because that's his right.

He's wrong about his right. You are wrong about it. The pedestrians have the right of way, even if a crosswalk is not marked, at any intersection in Portland.

You could still put on your big boy pants and retract your statement, you know.

This is 100% right. There is no defense for driving into protestors with a vehicle. An invented scenario of "being in danger" didn't even apply, just like it didn't in Charlottesville. The disturbing thing is I still see online comments and memes encouraging such behavior every time there is a protest. Freedom to drive your car does not equate to human life.

Think of the protesters as if they were family or friends - even if you disagree with them, you don't drive a car into them.

 

[phiwum]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...taurant/?utm_term=.36fb4ea2ebab&noredirect=on

A terrible thing, but not the same thing. We're talking here about basic civility toward our elected and administration officials. Maybe you think they don't deserve it (and you may have a point, but I'm not sure), but the kind of incivility and harassment we're talking about is, at present, coming from the liberal and progressive side.

Pizzagate is just a lame attempt to change the subject.

Again, Republicans have also done various bad, uncivil and dastardly things. No kidding. That wasn't my question.

 

[Cabbage]

How is the hassling of Ted Cruz, Kavanaugh, or Huckabee Sanders, of a meaningfully different character than, say, the alt-right hassling of the city of Charlottesville last year?

If you think there's a substantial difference, one in which the Democrats are the more egregious trespassers on public tranquility (LOL!)...well, I'm really not sure quite how to respond to such blatant, blind, partisan ignorance. In that case, I honestly think the indoctrination you've obviously undergone is quite beyond repair.

Funny how Ziggurat seems to disappear when you ask him uncomfortable questions.

 

[phiwum]

The Republicans had a strategy of harassing Democrats in public, from town hall meetings to speeches.

Not quite the same as interrupting a dinner in a restaurant. Really, this is a traditional form of protest that (some members of) both sides engage in. I'd like to see less of it, since it is both rude and pointless (I can't imagine it generates interest in your arguments).

Republican elected officials and candidates for office put targets on their opponents, like Gabby Gifford, as well.

Yeah, that was bad, but not the same thing.

You said that the left's recent public harassment was "copying the tactics of the right". That suggests that the right has engaged in the same sort of thing: publicly harassing officials out for a meal with their families.

 

[phiwum]

Funny how Ziggurat seems to disappear when you ask him uncomfortable questions.

I don't get the analogy. Hassling individuals in public is not much like the Charlottesville protest. The two are not well comparable.

 

[Ziggurat]

I have. Here it is for reference:



...and the only difference comparing this and, say, the actions of a James Patrick or Eric Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh, is the severity of the actions taken in revenge (or intended revenge, in Patrick's case). It's quite disingenuous to complain that Democrats are uniquely guilty when such examples of conservative activists are quite well known and much much worse.

Timothy McVeigh was not an activist. He was a terrorist. And again, get your cabbage out of your patch: what he did, while certainly worse than harassing government officials in public, is obviously also different from groups harassing government officials in public.

And, sure, the actions of James Hodgkinson are similarly severe and deplorable...but then again, I was never ignorant enough to claim it was a uniquely Republican problem, now was I?

You are ignorant enough to not understand that I'm talking about groups harassing government officials in public, which is the tactic that Craig4 was proposing. And yes, that has been (so far) a uniquely leftist problem. Which is why you have to keep bringing up other forms of bad behavior in your tu quoque quest.

 

[Cabbage]

We're talking here about basic civility toward our elected and administration officials.

If this is your point and you simultaneously dismiss the actions or intentions of Jared Lee Loughner as not being part of the problem, you're being disingenuous.

"Democrats verbally hassle Republican officials in public places, but when it comes to Republicans hassling Democrats in public, don't worry! They'll only shoot you!"

LOL!

 

[Ziggurat]

Funny how Ziggurat seems to disappear when you ask him uncomfortable questions.

Wow, but you have an inflated sense of your own importance.

I'm not at your beck and call. This forum doesn't take priority over the other obligations in my life. If I don't respond for a while, or at all, it's entirely possible it's because I'm busy and have something better to do.

 

[Cabbage]

Timothy McVeigh was not an activist. He was a terrorist.

His intent was revenge for Waco and Ruby Ridge. In my mind, that makes him BOTH activist and terrorist.

You are ignorant enough to not understand that I'm talking about groups harassing government officials in public, which is the tactic that Craig4 was proposing.

Sure, they didn't harass anyone; they shot them!

 

[ahhell]

What you're seeing is people copying the tactics of the right-wing nuts who have been doing this kind of thing for decades. At least those on the left aren't killing or running people over with cars.

Can you point to Republicans harassing Democratic legislators or administration officials in public? I don't recall anything like that.

This is not to say that some Republicans haven't behaved badly in other ways.

The Republicans had a strategy of harassing Democrats in public, from town hall meetings to speeches. Republican elected officials and candidates for office put targets on their opponents, like Gabby Gifford, as well.

All you did there was restate your original claim in slightly different words. Can you actually answer phiwum's question?