Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Because it's exactly like saying that they are all stupid. The statement can't be true

I would think that as well if I hadn't had an endless parade of evidence to the contrary put in front of me and not a single example to the contrary.

I mean you could argue that it would be wrong to label all rapists bad people or all racists bigots but I'll wait till I find one before I go to bat for that.

I really don't care about their feelings. I don't know where you get that idea,

Probably because the majority of your contribution to the discussion has been politeness policing people who use terms you don't like about Brexiteers.

You see any disagreement as tacit agreement with the opposition. Nothing could be further from the truth, as I've explained earlier.

Indeed. And you'll note I have never said that you support Brexit so you are incorrect in your conclusion. I'm merely confused as to why someone who has next to no interaction with Brexiteers on a daily basis would be so forthright in insisting he knows that 'some of them are good people'

I already have, but you chose to ignore it.

Nothing was ignored. Your hypotheticals were dealt with and I gave up when I assumed you slipped into parody when you tried to argue that its reasonable to argue things that are provably untrue.

 

[p0lka]

No, the issue here is that you absolutely want to paint all of the Leave camp as people who ignore facts. I'm telling you that this is not the case.

Are there any examples of the leave camp accepting facts?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Some interesting explanations have been given in this recent article: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lea-from-theresa-may-to-break-brexit-deadlock of The Guardian.


Has Theresa May provided an answer

Let's stop there and say 'No' ... no matter what follows that part the answer is the same.

Leavers seem to be confused about the fact that the freedoms are all interlinked and that the benefits of the EU come with obligations also.

 

[Belz...]

I would think that as well if I hadn't had an endless parade of evidence to the contrary put in front of me and not a single example to the contrary. I mean you could argue that it would be wrong to label all rapists bad people or all racists bigots but I'll wait till I find one before I go to bat for that.

Ok Leave voters are like rapists now. That's... I mean there's just no way to have a rational discussion with you on this topic.

 

[Belz...]

Are there any examples of the leave camp accepting facts?

Are there any examples of the remain camp accepting facts? That's a loaded and stupid question. Come on.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Ok Leave voters are like rapists now. That's... I mean there's just no way to have a rational discussion with you on this topic.

Is English your first language, because that's an amazing leap to avoid the point otherwise?

 

[fagin]

It's very hard to be nice/rational/reasonable about the ******* idiots that got us into this mess in the first place, and the ******* idiots who voted to continue the fiasco.

For those of us, and our families who will have to live through the aftermath, we have a right, IMHO, to call the ******* idiots, ******* idiots.

It's not an academic exercise. It's real life, and is going to hurt almost everyone. There is no upside, except in the tiny minds of jingoistic ******* idiots.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Are there any examples of the remain camp accepting facts?.

Yes, many.

 

[ceptimus]

Archie is wrong about leavers not accepting facts. As usual, he has his own idiosyncratic meaning of the word "facts". To him it means "things that Archie would like to be true."

 

[Belz...]

Is English your first language, because that's an amazing leap to avoid the point otherwise?

Do you often imagine ulterior motives about other people?

You specifically chose rapists as an analogy. If you don't think the two are similar, why bring it up? Or did your attempt to equivocate fail and now you're trying to blame me for "misunderstanding" you?

All you have is hatred and vitriol for those who chose differently from you. In fact, that's just as intolerant as you claim they are.

Yes, many.

Is this one of them:

It's very hard to be nice/rational/reasonable about the ******* idiots that got us into this mess in the first place, and the ******* idiots who voted to continue the fiasco.

For those of us, and our families who will have to live through the aftermath, we have a right, IMHO, to call the ******* idiots, ******* idiots.

It's not an academic exercise. It's real life, and is going to hurt almost everyone. There is no upside, except in the tiny minds of jingoistic ******* idiots.

?

 

[Amazer]

Archie is wrong about leavers not accepting facts. As usual, he has his own idiosyncratic meaning of the word "facts". To him it means "things that Archie would like to be true."

Well... you should have no problems providing a couple of examples then?

 

[ceptimus]

Examples of what?

 

[Wudang]

Examples of what?

Leavers paying attention to things right in front of them, ironically.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Archie is wrong about leavers not accepting facts. As usual, he has his own idiosyncratic meaning of the word "facts". To him it means "things that Archie would like to be true."

Such as having a veto over things like Turkey entering the EU or ever closer integration?

Aye, right.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

You specifically chose rapists as an analogy. If you don't think the two are similar, why bring it up? Or did your attempt to equivocate fail and now you're trying to blame me for "misunderstanding" you?

I chose an extreme example to make the point because I thought even you might be able to understand it if it was extreme enough.

All you have is hatred and vitriol for those who chose differently from you. In fact, that's just as intolerant as you claim they are.

Clueless. Seriously, do you want to talk about the issues or just constantly going to politeness police this thread from a position of ignorance and personal incredulity? If its the latter I'm finally out.

 

[Information Analyst]

Your hypothetical is an interesting one. I don't think necessarily that would have been accepted as a mandate for Remain. Certainly the Leave campaign would have played on the fact that England voted to leave and was being thwarted. The opposite... not the case.

Well, we all know that on the eve of the result Farage was saying that a close Remain majority would merit a second referendum, a stance he obviously "forgot" when it was the other way around.

 

[fagin]

Do you often imagine ulterior motives about other people?

You specifically chose rapists as an analogy. If you don't think the two are similar, why bring it up? Or did your attempt to equivocate fail and now you're trying to blame me for "misunderstanding" you?

All you have is hatred and vitriol for those who chose differently from you. In fact, that's just as intolerant as you claim they are.



Is this one of them:



?

It's very hard to be nice/rational/reasonable about the ******* idiots that got us into this mess in the first place, and the ******* idiots who voted to continue the fiasco.

For those of us, and our families who will have to live through the aftermath, we have a right, IMHO, to call the ******* idiots, ******* idiots.

It's not an academic exercise. It's real life, and is going to hurt almost everyone. There is no upside, except in the tiny minds of jingoistic ******* idiots.

Haha. That's nowhere near hatred and vitriol. I work with a few leavers. We are friends and get on fine. No animosity either way. In all other respects, apart from being ******* idiots, they are perfectly nice people.

But that doesn't stop them being ******* idiots. Which I have said to their respective faces, using those exact words, and others. One can disagree with people and not be at war.

 

[fagin]

ps. I say **** a lot in real life.

 

[Tolls]

Are there any examples of the remain camp accepting facts? That's a loaded and stupid question. Come on.

Yes.
They acknowledge the level of immigration into this country, but also acknowledge that these people wouldn't be here if there weren't the jobs for them to do.

The only way this would change is if the economy tanked...

Whereas Leave seems to think we can throw up a "wall" around the country with no effect on various industries.

 

[Information Analyst]

I have, but you probably ignored it because it doesn't lead to the conclusion that Leave voters are idiots.

The funny thing is, when I've engaged with Leave voters in real life, without fail the only or vast majority of the "reasons" they offer for having voted that ways are false. Either it's things that are nothing to do with the EU, gross distortions of thing that are to do with the EU, or outright lies. They are also invariably very resistant to being corrected. I don't think you appreciate just how pervasive the misinformation and disinformation has been.