Lessons to be learned from the Kavanaugh Hearing

[acbytesla]

Okay somebody has to break this down for me.

Person A says something.
Persons B,C,D,and E refute it.Person G refutes Person's B.
Therefore Person A is correct.

False premise. Saying they have no memory 30 years post hoc is not a refutation.

 

[acbytesla]

The lesson I learned is that Kavanaugh doesn't think on his feet. When asked about boofing and Devil's Triangle, the easy explanation is that is was a reference to popular expressions that sound funny. Maybe an in-joke that someone had asked that he found hysterical (Have you boofed yet? I mean, come on, I'd be ROFL if someone asked me that, and might even ask friends that question later in mock sincerity). But he came up with off-the-wall, comically transparent lies to cover them.

A lot of people have war stories from their college days that they might not be proud of today. It's excusable, people mature. But outright lying about them in a hearing...that reflects on his character here and now.

I agree. Imitating Trump is not a good strategy. And I don't want Trump on the bench either.

 

[Ziggurat]

Julie Swetnick, represented my Michael Avanetti, also accuses BK

Bwahahahaha!

First Swetnick claimed Kavanaugh spiked the drinks at a party and participated in gang rape. Then she said she didn't actually see him do anything, but he was hanging out around the punch bowl and in a group of boys near a bedroom. Even her own version of events is falling apart at the seams. Her accusation now merely consists of him being in proximity to her alleged rape. Which, like Ford's account, has nothing and no one to corroborate any of it.

 

[Ziggurat]

Apparently Zig-land no women can have as much credibility as white male Republican.

Ooo, we've got a twofer here, an accusation of racism and sexism! It's the standard leftist go-to when you don't have a real argument.

 

[Belz...]

Ooo, we've got a twofer here, an accusation of racism and sexism! It's the standard leftist go-to when you don't have a real argument.

Unfortunately, it's also an observation that women and minorities always seem short-changed by American conservatives. And that's an issue I see, as an outsider to this: both the left and the right are obsessed with race and sex.

 

[JoeMorgue]

"Gentleman can we not work against women and minorities without being accused of being racist and sexist?"

 

[Thermal]

Bwahahahaha!

First Swetnick claimed Kavanaugh spiked the drinks at a party and participated in gang rape. Then she said she didn't actually see him do anything, but he was hanging out around the punch bowl and in a group of boys near a bedroom. Even her own version of events is falling apart at the seams. Her accusation now merely consists of him being in proximity to her alleged rape. Which, like Ford's account, has nothing and no one to corroborate any of it.

What are you demanding, thirty year old video or all accusers are liars?

I think Kavanagh could plausibly said that he attended parties in his younger days where he was drinking heavily and there were promiscuous young ladies in attendance (subtly throwing shade on his accusers) but that he did not assault them. Perhaps he could have spun it to having a history of being one-of-the-boys who cleaned up his act and made good. The whole thing would have been done and done.

It's the transparent lying about it to hoist this halo up that should make us take accusations seriously. Swetnick indeed has been inconsistent (Avanetti?). Kavanaugh has LIED, and absurdly so.

 

[acbytesla]

What are you demanding, thirty year old video or all accusers are liars?

I think Kavanagh could plausibly said that he attended parties in his younger days where he was drinking heavily and there were promiscuous young ladies in attendance (subtly throwing shade on his accusers) but that he did not assault them. Perhaps he could have spun it to having a history of being one-of-the-boys who cleaned up his act and made good. The whole thing would have been done and done.

It's the transparent lying about it to hoist this halo up that should make us take accusations seriously. Swetnick indeed has been inconsistent (Avanetti?). Kavanaugh has LIED, and absurdly so.

I have a problem with the highlighted part. Women pretend that they aren't interested in sex, but they are, just like men. There is nothing wrong with this. So how does one say that there were eager or willing ladies present without people being offended? This idea is in itself the double standard.

 

[Lurch]

Bwahahahaha!

First Swetnick claimed Kavanaugh spiked the drinks at a party and participated in gang rape. Then she said she didn't actually see him do anything, but he was hanging out around the punch bowl and in a group of boys near a bedroom. Even her own version of events is falling apart at the seams. Her accusation now merely consists of him being in proximity to her alleged rape. Which, like Ford's account, has nothing and no one to corroborate any of it.

Is not Swetnick still alleging that BK (and Judge) were at a party where she was rendered incapacitated and gang raped? The matter of Kav's *presence* at such parties is requiring to verify, for it would put the lie to his claim to have never attended events where such stuff happened. Even before determining whether he participated in rape, his lie would be hanging there for all to see.

 

[Thermal]

I have a problem with the highlighted part. Women pretend that they aren't interested in sex, but they are, just like men. There is nothing wrong with this. So how does one say that there were eager or willing ladies present without people being offended? This idea is in itself the double standard.

Oh, agreed. Kavanagh is propping up a ludicrously puritanical pretense of never even having drunk underage, so his target audience would also like to view the women as sluts, and therefore not credible.

 

[Ziggurat]

Is not Swetnick still alleging that BK (and Judge) were at a party where she was rendered incapacitated and gang raped? The matter of Kav's *presence* at such parties is requiring to verify, for it would put the lie to his claim to have never attended events where such stuff happened. Even before determining whether he participated in rape, his lie would be hanging there for all to see.

Yeah, good luck with that. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[acbytesla]

Oh, agreed. Kavanagh is propping up a ludicrously puritanical pretense of never even having drunk underage, so his target audience would also like to view the women as sluts, and therefore not credible.

There are definitely people who think like that. But how promiscuous one is has nothing to do with their credibility. Consider that Kavanaugh supposedly is a choir boy who never had sex until after college, he's a liar and Trump who has proven that he is sexually promiscuous is also a liar.

 

[Belz...]

There are definitely people who think like that. But how promiscuous one is has nothing to do with their credibility.

Depends who you ask, really.

 

[Thermal]

There are definitely people who think like that. But how promiscuous one is has nothing to do with their credibility. Consider that Kavanaugh supposedly is a choir boy who never had sex until after college, he's a liar and Trump who has proven that he is sexually promiscuous is also a liar.

Maybe he thinks that the choir boy angle is necessary for SCOTUS nomination, no matter how absurd the whitewashing? If so, whoever would be buying such a steaming load of BS might view any sexually direct woman as a lying hussy? I am admittedly unclear as to the 'why', although I get the 'how'

 

[The Greater Fool]

It seems apparent that we and they have gathered different and contrary lessons from this situation. Obviously, we are right and they are wrong. We listen to what they say, and patiently correct their flawed perceptions of the situation, but they refuse to accept polite rational discourse. They act as if insults are meaningful arguments. If only we could get through to them. Mores the pity.

 

[Ziggurat]

Oh, agreed. Kavanagh is propping up a ludicrously puritanical pretense of never even having drunk underage, so his target audience would also like to view the women as sluts, and therefore not credible.

I should have looked up the actual transcript from the beginning, because I should have known people would be lying about what he said.

No, Kavanaugh never claimed that he didn't drink while underage. Dig through the transcript yourself. You won't be able to find any such claim. It doesn't exist. Most claims seem to stem from this quote:

MITCHELL: Dr. Ford has described you as being intoxicated at a party. Did you consume alcohol during your high school years?

KAVANAUGH: Yes, we drank beer. My friends and I, the boys and girls. Yes, we drank beer. I liked beer. Still like beer. We drank beer. The drinking age, as I noted, was 18, so the seniors were legal, senior year in high school, people were legal to drink, and we — yeah, we drank beer, and I said sometimes — sometimes probably had too many beers, and sometimes other people had too many beers.​

Note that he doesn't say that HE was always a legal drinker, or that he only drank after he turned 18.

For most of his highschool years, seniors who were 18 were in fact legal to drink. The law changed so that he wasn't even when he turned 18, but he never actually claimed he was. At the time Ford alleges he assaulted her, Kavanaugh was 17, so of course he wouldn't have been legal, but again, he never claimed he was. He claimed other people were. And that is true, they were.

 

[acbytesla]

Depends who you ask, really.

It does if you are talking about the perception of credibility, not actual credibility.

This is like people who say that atheists are less moral than Christians.

 

[Belz...]

It does if you are talking about the perception of credibility, not actual credibility.

I don't think there is such a thing as the latter, actually. It's all about perception, and in today's world, even moreso.

 

[Cavemonster]

I should have looked up the actual transcript from the beginning, because I should have known people would be lying about what he said.

No, Kavanaugh never claimed that he didn't drink while underage. Dig through the transcript yourself. You won't be able to find any such claim. It doesn't exist. Most claims seem to stem from this quote:

MITCHELL: Dr. Ford has described you as being intoxicated at a party. Did you consume alcohol during your high school years?

KAVANAUGH: Yes, we drank beer. My friends and I, the boys and girls. Yes, we drank beer. I liked beer. Still like beer. We drank beer. The drinking age, as I noted, was 18, so the seniors were legal, senior year in high school, people were legal to drink, and we — yeah, we drank beer, and I said sometimes — sometimes probably had too many beers, and sometimes other people had too many beers.​

Note that he doesn't say that HE was always a legal drinker, or that he only drank after he turned 18.

For most of his highschool years, seniors who were 18 were in fact legal to drink. The law changed so that he wasn't even when he turned 18, but he never actually claimed he was. At the time Ford alleges he assaulted her, Kavanaugh was 17, so of course he wouldn't have been legal, but again, he never claimed he was. He claimed other people were. And that is true, they were.

I have a hard time seeing the highlighted as anything other than an attempt to suggest that his drinking was legal without outright stating what he knew to be a falsehood.

I'll absolutely agree that it isn't perjury. But I would consider a disingenuous attempt to create an inaccurate impression to be an incredibly poor sign of character in this situation.

I find this to be rampant in Trump's circle. Making statements that any normal observer would take as an assertion of something that don't technically outright say it. Plausible deniability baked in. I find it more reprehensible than outright lying.

 

[Ziggurat]

I have a hard time seeing the highlighted as anything other than an attempt to suggest that his drinking was legal without outright stating what he knew to be a falsehood.

That doesn't make sense, since he wasn't a senior or 18 when the events with Ford were alleged to have taken place. That wouldn't be a mystery to the committee. Nor does he ever claim that he only drank while a senior. And I think there's a rather obvious alternative reason for him to say this, which is simply to point out that alcohol was commonly and easily available to highschoolers.