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Books Not to Read

I nominate Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. Man, that book hurt to read. In my opinion, it was so all over the place that I didn't know what I had read when I finished it.

It's all tied together with the location of a fictional Boston area, the theme of addiction, and family connections -- the plots involve the sons of the founder of the tennis academy as well as his wife.

No one can write the ultimate novel. There will be flaws. At the risk of psychoanalyzing Wallace, it's as if his late development and awkward adolescence -- he was a very bright self-conscious nerd who entered puberty late -- was a perspective he never got over. It's the center of the book. As a result, there seem to be no normal adult sexual relationships in Infinite Jest. Given that Wallace wanted to be less of a dick than John Updike, he hardly succeeded in being more healthy or showing what health and happiness could be. He probably had no idea. His friend David Franzen said that normal friendship doesn't become a philosophical problem like it did for Wallace unless there's something wrong, iirc.

He has perceptive things to say about addiction, but here again I think his perspective is a little too dire. The image in Infinite Jest that represents the ultimate threat of addiction is the fatal videotape that becomes central to the plot.

The central character -- Gately -- is not an intellectual like Wallace or me, which is sort of the point. (Wallace wanted to get out of his own self-consciousness, almost desperately.) Gately's story is a cycle of addiction, of waking up sick on the beach and hitting bottom, and a kind of redemption at the half-way house.

It mostly hangs together for me, it was mostly rewarding. He's not my hero, though.
 
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Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson.

I get a little excited when I find a nice, thick paperback that I think will keep me occupied for some time. Of course that only lasts until I figure out the book is wasting my time. Nearly 1000 pages. I think I gave the first couple hundred a good go, but found nothing compelling in the story. I eventually did that rare thing I do -- page through and skim to then end. I was not impressed by what I figured was the big reveal, and grateful that I did not invest any more time in it.
 
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson.

I get a little excited when I find a nice, thick paperback that I think will keep me occupied for some time. Of course that only lasts until I figure out the book is wasting my time. Nearly 1000 pages. I think I gave the first couple hundred a good go, but found nothing compelling in the story. I eventually did that rare thing I do -- page through and skim to then end. I was not impressed by what I figured was the big reveal, and grateful that I did not invest any more time in it.

What turned you off, the two-page description of eating a bowl of Capt'n Crunch cereal?

The logic flaws in that book were so huge that I considered it sort of a train wreck.

:blackcat:
 
I'm sure if it were well-written, and I got that far, I might have enjoyed that bit.

Just guessing, but I'd wager you liked Catch-22? ;)

I liked the film. Which puts me in a minority.
 
Dickens was not paid by the word. His contracts specify a number of monthly, or rarely weekly, installments for each book (except for short Christmas books they were all published as serials), but payment was determined by sales, not word count.
 
Dickens was not paid by the word. His contracts specify a number of monthly, or rarely weekly, installments for each book (except for short Christmas books they were all published as serials), but payment was determined by sales, not word count.

The problem with Dickens isn't the large number of words, it's the appallingly small number of sentences; I realize he was a product of his times, but to read him now anybody'd be excused in assuming he was docked a pound for each full stop, such were the incredible length of his sentences even after they had completely finished each thought, in itself, expressed entirely within its own relevant clause, like leaves tenderly curled around the budding blossom of a future fruit nestled in a crib, as Emily once fancifully remarked, for she was one much given to fancy, albeit moreso in the past when she was amongst gentler circumstances than her current plight in the dreary clutches of London, so different from her upbringing in the quiet village in the weald of oh my god it's catching help help help help help.
 
The problem with Dickens isn't the large number of words, it's the appallingly small number of sentences; I realize he was a product of his times, but to read him now anybody'd be excused in assuming he was docked a pound for each full stop, such were the incredible length of his sentences even after they had completely finished each thought, in itself, expressed entirely within its own relevant clause, like leaves tenderly curled around the budding blossom of a future fruit nestled in a crib, as Emily once fancifully remarked, for she was one much given to fancy, albeit moreso in the past when she was amongst gentler circumstances than her current plight in the dreary clutches of London, so different from her upbringing in the quiet village in the weald of oh my god it's catching help help help help help.
Dickens, at least, would use all those words to actually tell a story.
 
Okay, here’s one: Douglas Coupland’s Girlfriend in a Coma. I don’t know if this was written before or after Coupland became a big name, but it is total rubbish. The girlfriend of the title is in a coma (will she be the first of the gang to die?) thereby making her inner life of no consequence. By comparison, Joseph Heller’s characterization of women characters makes him look like Virginia Woolf. There is a threadbare plot about some panic that oscillates wildly in which machines stop working and Morrissey and Smiths song titles are crowbarred into the dialogue in cringe-inducing ways. If it was meant to be funny, that joke isn’t funny anymore.


“Everyday is like Sunday, now.”
“Can I ask how soon is now?”
“Uh oh, bigmouth strikes again!”
“Do you think the queen is dead?”
“Well, I have Irish blood, English heart, so I hope there is a light that never goes out.”

Ughhhh! Heaven knows i’m Miserable now!
 
Doctor Zhivago (Boris Pasternik) - Boooooorrrrriiinggggg! Death by reading!

"Fire Time" (Poul Anderson) - Anderson's prose is difficult to get through at the best of times, this was one of his worst IMO

(as opposed to "Tau Zero" by the same author - which was real "can't-put-it-down page-turner")


Oh, and if you are a LOTR/TH fan and are thinking about reading "The Silmarillion" forget it.
 
I’ve also heard that you should read Jack Kerouac’s On The Road by the time you are twenty or not at all.

Add The Monkey Wrench Gang to that list. Or maybe you have to really be in love with the dessert while you are reading it. I loved it when I thought I would never leave the dessert. I recommended it to someone and they reminded me that was really a juvenile book.

Infinite Jest is a book I really liked, but it was not a fun read. It required your attention, your focus even. I found it worth the time and I think it had several interesting themes. I'm glad I read it, and I may read it again, but I don't know when.

I always wondered why we only got excerpts of Don Quixote in school. Then I read the whole thing. Great in small doses, not an enjoyable read front to back.

Faulkner's Sanctuary was depressingly painful. I powered through looking for some redemption, but found little. Stay away if you want any light in your life.
 
Certainly not me. I read the LOTR trilogy recently and found it insufferably dull.

It's the Moby Dick of sci-fi, way too many useless descriptions.

Any Piers Anthony after Book 1 or maybe 2 of a series, as the storytelling gets bad. It's like a movie that becomes a hit so they decide to make it a trilogy (Matrix).

Mission Earth by Hubbard - How I read the whole series, I'll never know. Guess I just wanted to say I did it.
 
What turned you off, the two-page description of eating a bowl of Capt'n Crunch cereal?


That reminds me ... The Once and Future King.

For people who haven't read the novel that the movie "The Princess Bride" is based on, the premise is that it's an abridged version of a several centuries old novel that the author's father read to him as a child. When he found a copy as an adult, he discovered that his father had only been reading the good parts, while the actual book is incredibly dry, slow, and boring. The novel is the author's attempt to recreate what his father read to him.

For me, the Once and Future King is a real life version of the original unabridged book. I've never been able to get more than a quarter of the way through it.
A several page description of the leatherworking tools on a bench.
Merlin and Arthur shrink to explore an anthill, which sounds exciting, except it quickly becomes an allegorical essay on the inherent flaws of Communism.
The shapeshifting duel between Merlin and Mim, which was in the original "Sword in the Stone" novella and the Disney movie adaptation, was completely removed from "The Once and Future King", probably for being too exciting.
 
The worst book I ever read all the way through was Battlestar Galactica: Armageddon by Richard Hatch (the original BSG Apollo). It had the plot structure and dialogue of a kid playing with his space toys and making up a story for them while smashing them together. I read it out of curiosity and regretted it.
 
The worst book I ever read all the way through was Battlestar Galactica: Armageddon by Richard Hatch (the original BSG Apollo). It had the plot structure and dialogue of a kid playing with his space toys and making up a story for them while smashing them together. I read it out of curiosity and regretted it.

That doesn't sound very surprising.

Damn, I am trying to remember the poster who reviewed some of the Alt-right Hugo entries a couple of years ago. I *think* he referred to one candidate as "Ammonia".

ETA:
Not just racists. The puppyboys include:

Poxy: a racist, sexist, homophobe, "libertarian", anti-Semitic, anti-vaxxer, xian apologist, PuA, sometime stalker, marital rape supporter and son of a tax dodging felon.

John Wright: a bigoted xian apologist (and RCC sex abuse denier/apologist) with forays into homophobia, misogyny, AGW denial and miscellanous rants about the Girl Scouts teaching lesbianism and rambling comparisons of
Terry Pratchett to Adolph Hitler. Particularly curious was:


Tom "the ammonia king" Kratman; a homophobic, transphobic, misogynst with delusions about his prowess, and perhaps one of the worst writers ever. Also a Nazi apologist. Prone to Internet Tough Guy syndrome and ranting at anyone who dares to criticise his or his work.

Brad Torgersen: a mediocre writer (IMO) who seemed more motivated by his own ego but was partially responsible for the puppyboy saga and indulged in self-justifying lies about the withdrawal of Juliette Wade and then demonstrated his own homophobia with his rant about John Scalzi.

Larry Correia: well he started all because of his hissy fit over losing in previous Hugos and later tried frantic backpeddling when Poxy got involved. He also produced notorious rant against doversity in sci-fi.

Lou Antonelli: more of a fellow traveller than a true puppy (and one who's lied about his connection) but certainly a supporter; however he's a loon. Highlights of his antics include his 'Nazi' rant against Deirdre Saoirse Moen, his attempt to get one of his critics (Aaron Pound) fired, his laughable suggestions of legal action against Tor and of course his reporting David Gerrold to the Spokane police for inciting violence. This led to the trouble with Carrie Cuinn when she dropped one of his stories and his followers (incited perhaps by his edited reporting of the matter) started bombarding her with rape and death threats.

Michael Williamson: writer of truly awful military sci-fi with wooden characters and non-existent plots. Also known for his racist and misogynist commentary especially his June 2015 tweets about the mass murder in Charleston which led to Facebook banning him. Fond of posing with guns.



It scares them. Perhaps because it fascinated them...


Why not start a thread on who you think is the bets author?

I don't think Catsmate is a fan
 
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The entire collection of books by Lobsang Rampa.

I read about three of them with an open mind as to their credibility, but the fourth book was about cat legends, and that finished me.

Oh, yeah, those were hot when I was in college; read one or two but gave up after that. Along the same lines were the ridiculous Carlos Casteneda books.
 
Sherri Tepper writes brilliantly imaginative and highly entertaining novels.

Unfortunately, they all seem to be about how loathsome and deserving of being ruthlessly killed off humanity is.


There are a few moments where she veers into frothing rad-fem/TERF/homophobia territory, like Gate to Women's Country, but for the most part she's a very good writer and well worth reading if you can avoid the homophobia/transphobia (and occasional brush with misandry) in her later works. The best of her work that I've read so far is the Arbai trilogy. It's a shame that some of her works veer into that anti-LGTBQ biological-essentialist territory in particular, because she's otherwise one of the better feminist writers out there. Of course, I tend to share some of her misanthropy, so...

Back on topic. My nomination is Foucault's Pendulum It's the first book I read that I failed to finish; due to being absolutely as dull as watching paint dry.


Personally, I thought it was fascinating, and had trouble putting it down. But I'm weird, so...

One SF novel I'd add to the list though is Robert Heinlein's The Number of the Beast. If you read Stranger in a Strange Land back in the day, stop there.


The Number of the Beast was when Heinlein started writing his own fanfiction. That's the problem with a lot of his later work, Friday being another good (bad) example.

Two classics I've read (or reread) in the last couple years --

The Catcher in the Rye
A Separate Peace


-- makes me wonder why anyone would want to read these without having been assigned to. Well, I guess I did, but it was only to find out why they are considered so important in literature. I didn't.

I was well into adulthood before I realized the protagonist of The Catcher in the Rye being a smarmy little jagoff who needed to grow up was the entire point of the book. Seen in that light, it makes more sense that they'd assign it to kids who stand to learn the most from it, but they really ought to lead with that moral instead of assuming the kids'll catch on. At the time I was too busy being a smarmy little jagoff to possess that level of self-awareness.


IIRC, he wasn't intended to be a seen as a smarmy little jagoff, that Salinger fully intended his audience to identify with Holden. Salinger was also a disaffected nutcase ephebophile, so his own maturity issues and other mental problems were fully on display there.

There's a limit to how much of one's life one should spend reading Stephen Donaldson, and I hit the threshold in the middle of the Gap series. As a result, I can only advise you not to read the first two and a half books of this, along with the first two Thomas Covenant trilogies.


Personally, I love most of Donaldson's work. I thought all the Thomas Covenant books were great, and that the unsympathetic main character was a large part of the reason for that. It was effectively the "anti-Tolkien", and the point was Covenant's redemption and the recovery of his humanity. I also really liked the Mordant's Need duology. The Gap trilogy, however, is about where I draw the line. It's essentially a retelling of Wagner's Ring Cycle, and is unrelentingly brutal and dark. I managed to get all the way through it (I hate leaving things unfinished, even if they're crap), but that's about it.

For books not to read, that's generally going to be a fairly personal list (although there are a few that will be more or less universal, like the Twilight books and spinoffs like 50 Shades of Gray, the Wheel of Time books, most of which are sheer filler, and anything by Terry Goodkind, which are train-wreck fascination material at best).

One of my favorite fantasy authors is Louise Cooper. I loved the Time Master books and their spinoffs, and Mirage is one of the best dark fantasy novel's that I've read. But the Indigo series is not worth reading. That one struck me as more of a "paying the bills" thing aimed at teen-age girls.

Speaking of which, no one over 14 should read Mercedes Lackey.

Orson Scott Card had some great books, and some utter and complete crap, with a disturbing air of paedophilia underlying a lot of them.

Anything and everything written by Piers Anthony are best avoided, with the exception of the Aton books, and Of Man and Manta. Incarnations of Immortality starts well, but ends up just being repetitious and dull after the first couple books, and the less said about the writing quality of Apprentice Adept the better. Xanth started out vaguely misogynistic, and ended up being nothing more than an excuse to spew bad puns provided by readers. Everything else of his that I've read (most of it) ranges from disturbingly misogynistic to violently misogynistic. Bio of a Space Tyrant in particular seemed written as an excuse to string together violent rape scenes, and in the Cluster series, he managed to invent an entirely new form of sex and create a rape scenario for it. Then there was Pornucopia, which was all about rape as comedy. On the other hand, Mode not only was fairly dull for most of it, with profoundly stupid characters, but even managed to write a profoundly dull rape scene. The guy has some serious issues.
 
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